Re: CCIE R and S ver 4

Scott,
this is more general topic I reckon. It is about different schools of
teaching around the world: one school is after knowledge, the other is
after skills and competence. Memorizing and stuff all goes to the second
one. The second one is also the most popular in Anglosacson world (no
offense); All multiple-choice exams are about skills and competence
(which works better for some areas of human life and worse for others).

I once listened through your IPExpert RS audio-course (an old friend of
mine shared it with me, at that time I could not afford buying it).
Being surrounded by the followers of the second school of teaching, you
are (as it seems to me) trying to cultivate a knowledge, which I found
very much in line with how I would like to study back from high school
and Uni... good stuff. :-)

Cheers,
A.

Scott Morris wrote:
> They are teaching in that fashion now. Problem is people come at it
> with a linear set of thinking and limited experience with ALL the things
> that are mentioned on the blueprint. At the onset of v4, candidates
> still have the v3 method of thinking, which doesn't work.
>
> An interesting thing about classes/bootcamps/whatever. It is much
> easier to teach people a concept then it is to teach people HOW to think.
>
> Information is presented, but methods of absorption and useful
> regurgitation are a little more difficult for some.
>
> Just because you passed your driver's license test does not mean you can
> successfully drive a gran prix race. I mean conceptually they're all
> the same. you have a gas pedal, brake pedal, gears and a steering
> wheel... So what's the problem?
>
> ;)
>
>
>
>
> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
>
> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>
> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>
> evil_at_ine.com
>
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>
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>
> Knowledge is power.
>
> Power corrupts.
>
> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Johnny B CCIE wrote:
>
>> Narbik,
>>
>> Aren't people teaching the protocols now? Why aren't people passing
>> yet? It should not matter if the test changes or not in this case. We
>> are seeing something strange here. People have been taught the
>> technologies or we like to think so and no one is passing. Are not
>> enough people taking the test? Or are 90% of the technologies no
>> longer sufficient to pass this exam? Do you have any of your students
>> scheduled to take this lab Mister Narbik?
>>
>> AtlantaCCIE,
>>
>> Are all of these people monkeys who are failing the lab? Or are all of
>> them poorly prepared and simply do not know the technologies? When
>> will someone who is not a monkey pass?
>>
>> I actually read somewhere that they were teaching monkeys to erase the
>> pod and re-write the config but maybe they copied and pasted too. Has
>> anyone ever seen a monkey taking the lab when they were taking the
>> lab? ;)
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> But Johnny,
>>>
>>> That way you will be teaching around the test, and this is a big problem. If
>>> you teach the protocol, and i mean seriously teach 90 percent of each
>>> protocol, your students will pass.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Johnny B CCIE <jbccie_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you are smart you take the lab several times before you are an
>>>> instructor. ;)
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Alexei,
>>>>>
>>>>> I had to or else my number would have expired. I think as an instructor
>>>>> if
>>>>> you keep retaking the lab or even the written, it could raise flags.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Jonny English
>>>>> <redkidneybeans_at_gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> it means they failed the last attempt so they had to take it again if
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> want to pass
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Johnny B CCIE <jbccie_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What does this say for people who take the lab more than once?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "You gotta have balls to retake a lab.."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Atlanta CCIE
>>>>>>> <atlantaccie_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You gotta have balls to retake a lab.. Question is what IF you
>>>>>>>> fail?
>>>>>>>> Will
>>>>>>>> that mean now you are NOT a ccie? LOL
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 11:21 AM, <sheherezada_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I suppose there is no rule for re-taking the lab once you have
>>>>>>>>> passed
>>>>>>>>> it because it does not serve any practical purpose. I am afraid
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> if one would do that, it would only catch Cisco's attention for
>>>>>>>>> fraud
>>>>>>>>> or something nasty. You can not just walk away and say "I just
>>>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>>> to see your new lab".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Of course, I know that you guys were joking, but still...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mihai
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 31, 2009, Alexei Monastyrnyi
>>>>>>>>> <alexeim73_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> one way to find out is to try :-) someone who has got a CCIE RS
>>>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> recently got recertified by RS written can just jump into his/her
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "schedule
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a lab" page and try scheduling one. :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I remember Narbik said he passed RS written exam some time ago.
>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "not possible to retake a lab" is kinda odd, it is possible to
>>>>>>>>>> retake
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> written as many times as individual wants to (with a five-day
>>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> unsuccessful attempts or 180-day one if successful) :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Scott Morris wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While I technically haven't tried, I don't think it's possible
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> retake
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a lab you have already passed unless you do one of the beta
>>>>>>>>>> labs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Monastyrnyi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Technically, what would stop you from scheduling a lab after
>>>>>>>>>> passing a
>>>>>>>>>> written exam, even though the written one was for
>>>>>>>>>> recertification
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> you already got your number? I believe nothing. It would look
>>>>>>>>>> odd
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> still being a feasible act. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ospfv2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> can they do that without first let their ccie expired ? and lose
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> old number ?
>>>>>>>>>> i dont think so
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/30/09, hopalong <ccieangel2_at_googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Scott, Brian, Brad, Andrew Bruce.....can't one of you guys sit a
>>>>>>>>>> lab
>>>>>>>>>> for us
>>>>>>>>>> and tell us that all is actually OK in CCIE land?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> CCIE# 17xxx (R&S/SP)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>>>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>> www.MicronicsTraining.com
>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>> Training And Remote Racks available
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>> www.MicronicsTraining.com
>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>> Training And Remote Racks available
>>>
>>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Sun Nov 01 2009 - 14:17:14 ART