Re: CCIE R and S ver 4

I agree with Atlanta, Terry and Narbik.

With all that said and having failed v3 Lab , i can say Cisco should
still remove OEQ's and add 30 more miutes to troubleshooting.

-Raman

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Atlanta CCIE <atlantaccie_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> Agreed Terry!
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Terry Vinson <consultant_at_tnclimited.com>wrote:
>
>> Having four sons, two under the age of 5 I know what you mean. But my
>> point is how many of us just take the test hoping to get lucky (needing it
>> to be over). How many ignore the "signs" of not being ready and test
>> anyway, and then blame the test. I've taken the test (v3) twice, and both
>> times deep down I knew I wasn't ready. Last time Narbik even told me I
>> wasn't ready, but I had already scheduled and couldn't back out. But that
>> didn't stop me from initially feeling that the OEQ's were unfair and a crap
>> shoot.
>>
>> Now with the troubleshooting we have to really know the technologies. The
>> old exam was centered around configuration, the new test is centered more
>> around consulting. This makes it harder to "luck" into a number.
>>
>> I would love to see the open ended questions go, but they haven't yet. So
>> the only option is to assess, adapt and overcome (or give up <-- not an
>> option).
>>
>> Just my 2 cents.
>>
>> Warmest Regards,
>> Terry
>>
>>
>> Gary Duncanson wrote:
>>
>>> The problem Terry is time. I have been taking baby steps for 2.5 years now
>>> which almost coincides with the age of our son. Lack of daily study time has
>>> necessitated a patient approach. It works for me but a lot of people are
>>> put off with this because it's so time consuming. As for jumping out the
>>> window, I think lots of us feel like that from time to time especially with
>>> kids hanging off you while you do some more monotonous stuff of IPv6. It's
>>> little wonder people try to find ways to ramp up their training just get it
>>> all over with (if possible).
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Vinson" <
>>> consultant_at_tnclimited.com>
>>> To: "groupstudy" <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 2:21 AM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: CCIE R and S ver 4
>>>
>>>
>>> Just about every question I've ever missed while taking a mock lab or
>>>> working with a workbook, I've been able to trace down to a single lack of
>>>> understanding (or a misunderstanding) of a fundamental topic, or that topics
>>>> impact on another protocol etc. When I took Narbik's bootcamp last year
>>>> that was the one thing that he worked hardest at driving home. It's
>>>> something he seemed very passionate about. Most of the guys I study with
>>>> spend tons of time memorizing or speed drilling entering commands that they
>>>> don't really stop to think about. The test is timed so they think they have
>>>> to shove stuff into the CLI at the speed of light. Most have been taught to
>>>> look for key words or catch phrases which mean to do x or y config, rather
>>>> than look at things and reason things out.
>>>>
>>>> I personally wanted to leap into the multi-protocol labs as fast as
>>>> possible. I mean how many times can you do frame relay labs (or rip, or
>>>> ospf, or bgp) before you want to leap out a window? But honestly how many
>>>> of us really take the time to look at all aspects of a given lab in a
>>>> critical fashion, an analytical or a forensic fashion. Anthony Sequeira
>>>> always says to take baby steps. Narbik says examine the technology down to
>>>> the individual hairs. This kind of preparation takes discipline, more than
>>>> most people have.
>>>>
>>>> I think the point is clear. Foundation, Foundation, Foundation.
>>>>
>>>> I mean if you understand OSPF. Really understand it, how it works, why
>>>> it works. What question can someone ask you about OSPF that you won't be
>>>> able to answer? If you spent 90% of your time memorizing OSPF commands and
>>>> working on reflex, then analytical questions will be brain busters.
>>>>
>>>> My dad always said it would take only a few minutes to teach a man how to
>>>> drive a nail into a piece of wood, but it could take a lifetime for that man
>>>> to learn where to drive that nail to get the right results.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Johnny B CCIE wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Narbik,
>>>>>
>>>>> Aren't people teaching the protocols now? Why aren't people passing
>>>>> yet? It should not matter if the test changes or not in this case. We
>>>>> are seeing something strange here. People have been taught the
>>>>> technologies or we like to think so and no one is passing. Are not
>>>>> enough people taking the test? Or are 90% of the technologies no
>>>>> longer sufficient to pass this exam? Do you have any of your students
>>>>> scheduled to take this lab Mister Narbik?
>>>>>
>>>>> AtlantaCCIE,
>>>>>
>>>>> Are all of these people monkeys who are failing the lab? Or are all of
>>>>> them poorly prepared and simply do not know the technologies? When
>>>>> will someone who is not a monkey pass?
>>>>>
>>>>> I actually read somewhere that they were teaching monkeys to erase the
>>>>> pod and re-write the config but maybe they copied and pasted too. Has
>>>>> anyone ever seen a monkey taking the lab when they were taking the
>>>>> lab? ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> But Johnny,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That way you will be teaching around the test, and this is a big
>>>>>> problem. If
>>>>>> you teach the protocol, and i mean seriously teach 90 percent of each
>>>>>> protocol, your students will pass.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Johnny B CCIE <jbccie_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are smart you take the lab several times before you are an
>>>>>>> instructor. ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alexei,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had to or else my number would have expired. I think as an
>>>>>>>> instructor
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> you keep retaking the lab or even the written, it could raise flags.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Jonny English
>>>>>>>> <redkidneybeans_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it means they failed the last attempt so they had to take it again
>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> want to pass
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Johnny B CCIE <jbccie_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What does this say for people who take the lab more than once?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "You gotta have balls to retake a lab.."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Atlanta CCIE
>>>>>>>>>> <atlantaccie_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You gotta have balls to retake a lab.. Question is what IF you
>>>>>>>>>>> fail?
>>>>>>>>>>> Will
>>>>>>>>>>> that mean now you are NOT a ccie? LOL
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 11:21 AM, <sheherezada_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I suppose there is no rule for re-taking the lab once you have
>>>>>>>>>>>> passed
>>>>>>>>>>>> it because it does not serve any practical purpose. I am afraid
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> if one would do that, it would only catch Cisco's attention for
>>>>>>>>>>>> fraud
>>>>>>>>>>>> or something nasty. You can not just walk away and say "I just
>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>>>>>> to see your new lab".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, I know that you guys were joking, but still...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mihai
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 31, 2009, Alexei Monastyrnyi
>>>>>>>>>>>> <alexeim73_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> one way to find out is to try :-) someone who has got a CCIE RS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> recently got recertified by RS written can just jump into his/her
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "schedule
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a lab" page and try scheduling one. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I remember Narbik said he passed RS written exam some time ago.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "not possible to retake a lab" is kinda odd, it is possible to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> retake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> written as many times as individual wants to (with a five-day
>>>>>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> unsuccessful attempts or 180-day one if successful) :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott Morris wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> While I technically haven't tried, I don't think it's possible
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> retake
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a lab you have already passed unless you do one of the beta
>>>>>>>>>>>>> labs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Monastyrnyi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Technically, what would stop you from scheduling a lab after
>>>>>>>>>>>>> passing a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> written exam, even though the written one was for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> recertification
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you already got your number? I believe nothing. It would look
>>>>>>>>>>>>> odd
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still being a feasible act. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ospfv2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can they do that without first let their ccie expired ? and lose
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> old number ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> i dont think so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/30/09, hopalong <ccieangel2_at_googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott, Brian, Brad, Andrew Bruce.....can't one of you guys sit a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lab
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for us
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and tell us that all is actually OK in CCIE land?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> CCIE# 17xxx (R&S/SP)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>>>>>>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>>>>> www.MicronicsTraining.com
>>>>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>>>>> Training And Remote Racks available
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>>>>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>>> www.MicronicsTraining.com
>>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>>> Training And Remote Racks available
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> CCIE# 17xxx (R&S/SP)
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Sun Nov 01 2009 - 11:27:37 ART