Re: CCIE R and S ver 4

Having four sons, two under the age of 5 I know what you mean. But my
point is how many of us just take the test hoping to get lucky (needing
it to be over). How many ignore the "signs" of not being ready and test
anyway, and then blame the test. I've taken the test (v3) twice, and
both times deep down I knew I wasn't ready. Last time Narbik even told
me I wasn't ready, but I had already scheduled and couldn't back out.
But that didn't stop me from initially feeling that the OEQ's were
unfair and a crap shoot.

Now with the troubleshooting we have to really know the technologies.
The old exam was centered around configuration, the new test is centered
more around consulting. This makes it harder to "luck" into a number.

I would love to see the open ended questions go, but they haven't yet.
So the only option is to assess, adapt and overcome (or give up <-- not
an option).

Just my 2 cents.

Warmest Regards,
Terry

Gary Duncanson wrote:
> The problem Terry is time. I have been taking baby steps for 2.5 years
> now which almost coincides with the age of our son. Lack of daily
> study time has necessitated a patient approach. It works for me but a
> lot of people are put off with this because it's so time consuming. As
> for jumping out the window, I think lots of us feel like that from
> time to time especially with kids hanging off you while you do some
> more monotonous stuff of IPv6. It's little wonder people try to find
> ways to ramp up their training just get it all over with (if possible).
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Vinson"
> <consultant_at_tnclimited.com>
> To: "groupstudy" <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 2:21 AM
> Subject: Re: CCIE R and S ver 4
>
>
>> Just about every question I've ever missed while taking a mock lab or
>> working with a workbook, I've been able to trace down to a single
>> lack of understanding (or a misunderstanding) of a fundamental topic,
>> or that topics impact on another protocol etc. When I took Narbik's
>> bootcamp last year that was the one thing that he worked hardest at
>> driving home. It's something he seemed very passionate about. Most
>> of the guys I study with spend tons of time memorizing or speed
>> drilling entering commands that they don't really stop to think
>> about. The test is timed so they think they have to shove stuff into
>> the CLI at the speed of light. Most have been taught to look for key
>> words or catch phrases which mean to do x or y config, rather than
>> look at things and reason things out.
>>
>> I personally wanted to leap into the multi-protocol labs as fast as
>> possible. I mean how many times can you do frame relay labs (or rip,
>> or ospf, or bgp) before you want to leap out a window? But honestly
>> how many of us really take the time to look at all aspects of a given
>> lab in a critical fashion, an analytical or a forensic fashion.
>> Anthony Sequeira always says to take baby steps. Narbik says examine
>> the technology down to the individual hairs. This kind of
>> preparation takes discipline, more than most people have.
>>
>> I think the point is clear. Foundation, Foundation, Foundation.
>>
>> I mean if you understand OSPF. Really understand it, how it works,
>> why it works. What question can someone ask you about OSPF that you
>> won't be able to answer? If you spent 90% of your time memorizing
>> OSPF commands and working on reflex, then analytical questions will
>> be brain busters.
>>
>> My dad always said it would take only a few minutes to teach a man
>> how to drive a nail into a piece of wood, but it could take a
>> lifetime for that man to learn where to drive that nail to get the
>> right results.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Johnny B CCIE wrote:
>>> Narbik,
>>>
>>> Aren't people teaching the protocols now? Why aren't people passing
>>> yet? It should not matter if the test changes or not in this case. We
>>> are seeing something strange here. People have been taught the
>>> technologies or we like to think so and no one is passing. Are not
>>> enough people taking the test? Or are 90% of the technologies no
>>> longer sufficient to pass this exam? Do you have any of your students
>>> scheduled to take this lab Mister Narbik?
>>>
>>> AtlantaCCIE,
>>>
>>> Are all of these people monkeys who are failing the lab? Or are all of
>>> them poorly prepared and simply do not know the technologies? When
>>> will someone who is not a monkey pass?
>>>
>>> I actually read somewhere that they were teaching monkeys to erase the
>>> pod and re-write the config but maybe they copied and pasted too. Has
>>> anyone ever seen a monkey taking the lab when they were taking the
>>> lab? ;)
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Narbik Kocharians
>>> <narbikk_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But Johnny,
>>>>
>>>> That way you will be teaching around the test, and this is a big
>>>> problem. If
>>>> you teach the protocol, and i mean seriously teach 90 percent of each
>>>> protocol, your students will pass.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Johnny B CCIE <jbccie_at_gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you are smart you take the lab several times before you are an
>>>>> instructor. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Narbik Kocharians
>>>>> <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Alexei,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had to or else my number would have expired. I think as an
>>>>>> instructor
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> you keep retaking the lab or even the written, it could raise flags.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Jonny English
>>>>>> <redkidneybeans_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it means they failed the last attempt so they had to take it
>>>>>>> again if
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> want to pass
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Johnny B CCIE <jbccie_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What does this say for people who take the lab more than once?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "You gotta have balls to retake a lab.."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Atlanta CCIE
>>>>>>>> <atlantaccie_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You gotta have balls to retake a lab.. Question is what IF you
>>>>>>>>> fail?
>>>>>>>>> Will
>>>>>>>>> that mean now you are NOT a ccie? LOL
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 11:21 AM, <sheherezada_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I suppose there is no rule for re-taking the lab once you have
>>>>>>>>>> passed
>>>>>>>>>> it because it does not serve any practical purpose. I am afraid
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> if one would do that, it would only catch Cisco's attention for
>>>>>>>>>> fraud
>>>>>>>>>> or something nasty. You can not just walk away and say "I just
>>>>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>>>> to see your new lab".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Of course, I know that you guys were joking, but still...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mihai
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 31, 2009, Alexei Monastyrnyi
>>>>>>>>>> <alexeim73_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> one way to find out is to try :-) someone who has got a CCIE RS
>>>>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> recently got recertified by RS written can just jump into
>>>>>>>>>> his/her
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "schedule
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a lab" page and try scheduling one. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I remember Narbik said he passed RS written exam some time ago.
>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "not possible to retake a lab" is kinda odd, it is possible to
>>>>>>>>>>> retake
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> written as many times as individual wants to (with a five-day
>>>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> unsuccessful attempts or 180-day one if successful) :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Scott Morris wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> While I technically haven't tried, I don't think it's possible
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> retake
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> a lab you have already passed unless you do one of the beta
>>>>>>>>>>> labs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Monastyrnyi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Technically, what would stop you from scheduling a lab after
>>>>>>>>>>> passing a
>>>>>>>>>>> written exam, even though the written one was for
>>>>>>>>>>> recertification
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> you already got your number? I believe nothing. It would look
>>>>>>>>>>> odd
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> still being a feasible act. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ospfv2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> can they do that without first let their ccie expired ? and
>>>>>>>>>>> lose
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> old number ?
>>>>>>>>>>> i dont think so
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/30/09, hopalong <ccieangel2_at_googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Scott, Brian, Brad, Andrew Bruce.....can't one of you guys
>>>>>>>>>>> sit a
>>>>>>>>>>> lab
>>>>>>>>>>> for us
>>>>>>>>>>> and tell us that all is actually OK in CCIE land?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> CCIE# 17xxx (R&S/SP)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>>>>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>>> www.MicronicsTraining.com
>>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>>> Training And Remote Racks available
>>>>>>
>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>> www.MicronicsTraining.com
>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>> Training And Remote Racks available
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Sun Nov 01 2009 - 08:17:24 ART