From: Scott Morris (smorris@ipexpert.com)
Date: Mon Apr 14 2008 - 02:11:00 ART
He keeps avoiding my bootcamp. I think it scares people. :)
But that's beside the point. Nobody should be banned because of the fact
they run a bootcamp. Otherwise, the Brians, Bruce, Bob, myself and others
would have been gone a long while ago.
I'm hoping there's simply something more to the story than all the rest of
us happen to know about. Hell if I know what it is though!
Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, JNCIE-M
#153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
Fax: +1.810.454.0130
http://www.ipexpert.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Joseph Brunner
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:40 PM
To: 'Joshua'; 'Ramy Sisy'; 'Cisco certification'
Subject: RE: ********
I'm not going to trash the bootcamps...
But I will say this about them... the money is better spent on actual lab
attempts...
D@R6Y has been to ALL the bootcamps in the world (from what I can tell) and
sorry D@R6Y, he STILL hasn't passed yet...
In regards to Cert Science, you can't make a person into CCIE in 6 weeks.
You can't guarantee someone is smart enough to pass the lab, or disciplined
enough to come back to it if they fail the lab.
I am a CCNP instructor. I make my own workbooks. Many people who have passed
the written and are already CCNP's are unable to do them. Why? One guy said
he was just going for the lab, and now is taking my CCNP class in 2 weeks.
A person has to commit to being great. The type of person who will need a
bootcamp to get them motivated to approach greatness, is not same type of
person who has such a strong self-starter they can just stay at home, save
the money and show the discipline to be great on their own.
I started teaching to find excellent people for my Consulting firm. Then I
realized, wait, I am what I am because I didn't go to bootcamps. I taught my
self discipline while banging away at the CLI for thousands of hours and
making notes the last 8 years. I have taught over 100+ people Cisco since
05/2007. Only 2 people (SO FAR) exhibit the patience and discipline to do
what I do (show up and take control of a network, document it, fix it,
explain what you are doing). So the Jury is still out on whether training is
worth the time of the INSTRUCTOR.
So let's forget about bootcamps on this board. Let's just talk about the
technology.
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Joshua
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:14 PM
To: 'Ramy Sisy'; 'Cisco certification'
Subject: ********
Searching for a good CCIE boot camp is no different than searching for a
good university or advanced degree program to which to attend. Many schools
just simply have stronger programs and have a much better reputation than
most others. Bottom line is that the student is just going to have to do
their homework to figure out which to attend. Depending on the school of
choice, the student may have to do more work at one school versus another.
And like most schools, there are professors that very highly respected and
maybe even become a trusted mentor for many students. Then, there are the
"other" professors who just plain suck and you are left with questioning
just how in the hell that person made it through the vetting process.
Chances are, it is because of that one professor that will slow your
progress. CCIE boot camp/schools and instructors are no different. Some
are just damn awesome, while others will essentially drive a stake into the
ground through your foot.
$Nar--bik" was banned because former students were commenting about the high
quality of his classes.
But, from what I have seen on GS, certainly not any more than formers
students who have attended competing boot camps. What made $Dar**by's
situation different was that he posted daily reports while attending
*Nar-B-iks class. He was giving a daily account of **Narb-ik's
professionalism, abilities as an instructor, the quality of his classroom
instruction, curriculum and what topics we covered. This was from a
student's point of view. Grant it, *Darby probably over did it. *Dar*by
knew that he was probably stepping over the line. But, why ban *&Narb-ik?
I was in *Narb--iks class, alongside *Da---rby, when *Dar*by was banned by
P*aul B@orghese. There is one thing *Dar*by was right about. When it comes
to high quality hardcore boot camps, *^Nar--bik's class is a real threat to
&^Cert-Scie_nce and several other companies. I know. I attended the
Cer-t-sci-ence boot camp. Unless you want to be ripped off $8K+, I wouldn't
recommend the program, period. I have also attended INX and Netmasterclass.
*Nar*bi-k, INX and NetMasterClass are worth every penny. I have never
attended Scott Morris' class, but I have met the man and he is clearly a
hardcore CCIE much like N*ar*bik, INX, and Netmasterclass. You cannot go
wrong with any of these guys, for the exception of one.
Nonetheless, I have not seen *Nar--bik push his class, like some others
have. I have never seen him attach huge or sometimes obnoxious signature
blocks like some others. I have not seen *Narbi--k advertise his class in
any way, other than to inform someone to email him directly, if they had
questions about his class. So, why ban *Narb--ik??? He has contributed to
so many passing their labs by answering so many questions that others could
not do on their own. Just as Scott, Brian Dennis, Brian McGahan, Bruce
Caslow, Bob Sinclair and several others have done.
*Narb-ik$ had nothing but good things to say about Scott Morris,
Internetwork-experts, and Netmaster's.
He just never had anything to say about C*ert-Sc*ience.
You know; if you don't have anything good to say..........??? Hmmmmm....
CertScience...... Paul Borghese...... Ban &Narb**ik....... Has the the
Patriot Act has come to GS....??? I know, I know. That was a bit much. But
still, it does beg for questions when looking at the motivation for banning
*Narb*ik.
Why not ban all instructors from training companies, if there are so many
complaints about this stuff?
Complaints?? The IPExpert, Netmasterclass and Internetwork Experts have
nothing to worry about.
Their reputation precedes them. If others are threatened by it, then they
need to step up the quality of their CCIE boot camp learning experience, as
well as their level of professionalism. Or better yet, go beyond the norm.
The point of competition is to push the limits, find better ways and
hopefully, increase the quality of just about anything, including the
learning experience. If a CCIE hopeful asks for feedback about any persons
experience in reference to any one of the CCIE boot camps, the GS door is
going to open. And it will swing both ways. Former students are going to
chime in. It is the nature of the beast on this forum.
It seems to me that if you want to create a forum for pure CCIE studies,
without this adolescent bickering crap, then simply dis-allow any form of
advertisement or promotion altogether. Including the *CertScience signature
automatically attached to the bottom of the GS emails. If it cannot be
stopped, then try to
control it via a solution. GS is and has been the
largest CCIE forum in the world. So, why not let it pay for itself. Paid
advertisements??? Maybe a banner or set of links at the bottom of all GS
emails. Anyone caught advertising or promoting anything beyond the
banner/links, will be kicked off. Simple as that. If it is too difficult
to "police" the forum on this level, oh well. It is, unfortunately, one of
those problems to which a solution will need to be found.
Or..... just deal with the problem. Hey, just shutdown GS? Problem solved.
My $.02 worth Wait, now its $.0125.
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com
[mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of CCIE
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:15 AM
To: 'Ramy Sisy'; 'ccie girl'; 'Cisco certification'
Subject: RE: OT Darby
What do you mean "Nar---bik is not showing since 18 JAN???
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com
[mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Ramy Sisy
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 9:59 PM
To: 'ccie girl'; 'Cisco certification'
Subject: RE: OT Darby
Probably he was filtered after his last post "Nar
bik's Bootcamp Chronicles - Day 1".
Also Nar
bik, he is not showing since 18 Jan?!
-----------------------------------------------
Thanks,
Ramy Sisy
CCIE#17321 (Security), CCSI#30417
http://www.linkedin.com/in/RAMYSISY
CCIE Security Content Manager/ Technical Instructor
http://www.CCBOOTCAMP.com
-----------------------------------------------
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the
opposite direction" Albert Einstein
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com
[mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of ccie girl
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:53 PM
To: Cisco certification
Subject: OT Darby
..is it just me or does anyone else miss Mr Weaver's input?
I hope he is OK.
Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
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