From: Greg Wendel (gwendel@gmail.com)
Date: Sat Mar 01 2008 - 20:54:47 ARST
Scott,
Remember, if the glove fits you must acquit =).
On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Scott Vermillion <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>
wrote:
> (The following e-mail should be deleted by Tony Varriale and any who agree
> that this discussion is a waste of precious BW...)
>
> Darth,
>
> I took the time to read this article. From the Cisco PR Manager of
> Corporate Communications:
>
> "...we see a couple of issues with the Rent-a-Cert idea..."
>
> "According to our Channel Partner Program requirements, partners can
> employ
> *full-time* contractor employees..."
>
> "As part of our annual partner audit we validate the employment contracts
> for the required CCIEs."
>
> "This requirement to remain compliant between annual audits makes
> Rent-a-Cert a short-term fix or expensive long-term proposition."
>
>
> From the author of the friggin article himself:
>
> "...the Rent A Cert idea is penny wise and dollar *foolish for the cert
> holder*, although it may appear at first to be a great way to earn extra
> monthly cash from your cert.
>
> Why?
>
> Because it will drive down the salaries of all Cisco cert holders once
> Cisco
> partners get into the habit of "cheaply renting" Cisco certs."
>
> "Initially the Rent A Cert idea will appear advantageous for Cisco
> partners
> renting CCIEs on the "cheap".
>
> But where is that partner's value proposition?"
>
> ???????
>
> Darth, I cannot imagine why you posted this article in your own defense -
> it
> totally discredits the concept in every way possible! You may as well
> have
> introduced as evidence the missing murder weapon at your own trial.
>
> ???????
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> darth router
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:03 AM
> To: Joseph Brunner
> Cc: Tony Schaffran (GS); Robert Hosford; sheherezada@gmail.com;
> tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> It's not against the rules to contract out to a partner and for them to
> use
> your CCIE. You guys ought to read that article. Honestly, all this talk
> about devaluing the cert is nonsense. Cisco has ultimate control of what
> devalues the cert, not us. They are managing to do that by their own
> greedy
> devices. My employer uses my IE (Yep, I work there full time) to get into
> jobs. That does not mean I do the work. Isn't that unethical? Nope, it's
> just another day of business in the partner world.
>
> DR
>
> On 3/1/08, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com> wrote:
> >
> > As a side note:
> >
> > Is there any end user company that will "only buy from a gold partner"?
> >
> > I think most of the companies I know want far far more than 38% off
> > list...
> >
> > (they want 50%+ off list) and for that we go to networkhardware.com
> >
> > When you are buy two of everything and allowing NO SINGLE POINT OF
> FAILURE
> > (all my designs) what difference does "new but used" make?
> >
> > I think Cisco's partner model needs adjusting... if the only value gold
> > partners bring is the discount how long will that last?
> >
> > Most of the support I see being done by tac - customer's don't want gold
> > partners billing $200+ per hour to configure a few vlans anyway...
> >
> > They just get those guys they hired with "CCNA or CCIE required ads" on
> > dice
> > to open a support call.
> >
> > LOL
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > Tony
> > Schaffran (GS)
> >
> > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 10:39 AM
> > To: 'Robert Hosford'; sheherezada@gmail.com
> > Cc: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; 'Cisco certification'
> > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >
> > That is an entirely different scenario.
> >
> > The umbrella company itself is employing the resources regardless of
> them
> > being spread across the 26 different divisions. If they have a customer
> > that has come to them because of their gold status, that umbrella
> company
> > has those 5 CCIE's on hand to provide the service the customer expects
> > from
> > a gold partner if needed.
> >
> > That is actually how the company I work for operates. We have offices
> all
> > over the United States and employ over one hundres CCIE's. Most of our
> > reigons could not support Gold status on their own, but if they need a
> > CCIE
> > resource for a customer, they can pull that resource from another
> region.
> > This is smart business.
> >
> > Now consider a customer has gone to a company because of their gold
> status
> > and that gold partner has just rented CCIE numbers and does not have the
> > resources available. The customer would possible not get the service
> they
> > expected, the gold partner status would lose its value and eventually,
> the
> > CCIE would no longer be needed.
> >
> > Look at the big picture. Just because renting CCIE numbers happens and
> is
> > a
> > common practice in some areas, does not make it right. In the long run,
> > it
> > will only hurt us.
> >
> > I think we have said enough on this topic. If you still think there is
> no
> > problem with renting your CCIE number, then there is nothing stopping
> you.
> > That is just the kind of person you are.
> >
> > Good luck with your future.
> >
> >
> >
> > Tony Schaffran
> > Network Analyst
> > CCIE #11071
> > CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
> >
> > www.cconlinelabs.com
> > Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert Hosford [mailto:rhosford@certifiednets.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 5:27 AM
> > To: sheherezada@gmail.com; Tony Schaffran (GS)
> > Cc: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; Cisco certification
> > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >
> > Tony,
> >
> > Tell me, does the following scenario hurt your CCIE value? Is it
> ethical?
> >
> > A Company has 26 separate divisions that all have different HR
> > departments,
> > different CEOs, different internal payrolls departments, different state
> > business licenses. Yet the umbrella company claims gold status because
> > amongst the 26 division there are 5 CCIEs?
> >
> > I think hurts your CCIE value. I think it is unethical because for Tax
> > purposes all 26 divisions are separate. In reality the divisions are 26
> > different companies. None of the individual companies can be a silver
> > partner on their own. I don't see you complaining about this kind of
> > fraud.
> > This fraud hurts honest Gold Partners that will hire, train, and retain
> > skilled CCIEs.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > sheherezada@gmail.com
> > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 12:37 PM
> > To: Tony Schaffran (GS)
> > Cc: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; Cisco certification
> > Subject: Re: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >
> > Tony,
> >
> > I think you are right, but in some countries Cisco itself distorts the
> > market. Have you heard of the unique Cisco concept named "country
> > grouping"? Say, put together three Eastern European countries and let
> > partners claim Gold status for each of them, even if they have zero
> > CCIEs in particular country, just because they happen to count up to
> > four in the other two altogether.
> >
> > Mihai
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Tony Schaffran (GS)
> > <groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com> wrote:
> > > I am speaking to all CCIE's.
> > >
> > > This practice is simply unethical and serves to only bring down the
> > value
> > of
> > > being a CCIE.
> > >
> > > If a company can just buy a number at a discount rate, then why would
> > any
> > > company employ a CCIE at a premium rate?
> > >
> > > Think about it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tony Schaffran
> > > Network Analyst
> > > CCIE #11071
> > > CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > > NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
> > >
> > > www.cconlinelabs.com
> > > Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Tony Varriale [mailto:tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:37 AM
> > > To: 'Tony Schaffran (GS)'; 'Cisco certification'
> > > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm not sure which "a CCIE" you are speaking to. But, not only does
> > Cisco
> > > allow it, it happens.
> > >
> > > If you want something to worry about, check out Mr. Reese and his
> > "don't
> > pay
> > > for licenses but Cisco should support the 3rd party market gear"
> > mantra.
> > > That has way more wide spread impact on the community and economy.
> > >
> > > Tony
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > Tony
> > > Schaffran (GS)
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 12:58 PM
> > > To: 'Tony Varriale'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> > > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> > >
> > > This topic touches on basic ethics and I would hope a CCIE would have
> a
> > > higher standard.
> > >
> > > Is it right for a company to just buy a CCIE number to get the
> partner
> > > discounts and deceive their clients by claiming to be a gold partner
> or
> > such
> > > without really having the resources on hand?
> > >
> > > To me, this just seems fundamentally wrong.
> > >
> > >
> > > Tony Schaffran
> > > Network Analyst
> > > CCIE #11071
> > > CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > > NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
> > >
> > > www.cconlinelabs.com
> > > Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > Tony
> > > Varriale
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 10:48 AM
> > > To: 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> > > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> > >
> > > Yes it is. I would recommend not using that service you listed. You
> > can
> > > easily find someone to take it if you are in a major metro area by
> > asking
> > > around and possible even from your local Cisco office.
> > >
> > > Normal rates are $2-3k/month with a 12 month contract.
> > >
> > > Tony
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Darren Johnson
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:41 AM
> > > To: 'Cisco certification'
> > > Subject: Unassigned CCIE query.
> > >
> > > Hey all. As per my post last week, I passed the lab and now have an
> > > unassigned CCIE number (I paid for study and lab myself). I'm now in
> a
> > > position where I'm weighing up my options. Is it possible to 'rent'
> out
> > my
> > > CCIE number to a company, whilst still remaining employed by my
> present
> > > employer? I have heard of rentacert.com but people seemed skeptical
> of
> > it.
> > >
> > > Let me stress, I DO NOT WANT TO VIOLATE ANY CISCO POLICIES and if
> > renting
> > > out a cert is doing so, I WILL NOT DO IT. However, if it is
> > possible/legal
> > > and people out there do it, can they kindly explain how it works. I
> > want
> > to
> > > get as much value out of my cert as possible.
> > >
> > > Thanks for ANY advice
> > >
> > > Darren
> > > #20078
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___________________________________________________________
> > > Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to
> > use"
> > > The Wall Street Journal
> > > http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
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> _______________________________________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________________________________
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>
-- Gregory Wendel Springfield VA, 22153
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