From: darth router (darklordrouter@gmail.com)
Date: Sat Mar 01 2008 - 21:17:34 ARST
"If a channel partner hires a CCIE away from another Cisco Certified or
Specialized Partner, Cisco will not count this individual toward the
certification or specialization for the hiring channel partner for 12-months
from the date of hire.
This would make it tough for a CCIE to rent themselves to more than one
partner over the course of a 12-month period.
Near as we can tell, the Rent-a-Cert idea is based on the concept that a
CCIE could simply loan his/her certification number to a channel partner,
but given that Cisco has a complete employment history of all CCIEs we would
discover during the audit process that a CCIE was a registered employee for
two companies thus making it impossible for them to qualify as a full-time
contractor or employee. "
This is one of the issues. If your a consultant, you wouldn't rent/contract
your CCIE to more than one company anyway, thus there is no violation.
"What I personally think about the Rent A Cert idea:1. Cisco Cert holders
have the right to market themselves and create job opportunities in pretty
much whatever manner they wish. However, the Rent A Cert idea is penny wise
and dollar foolish for the cert holder, although it may appear at first to
be a great way to earn extra monthly cash from your cert"
Does he say anywhere in that paragraph that this is a violation of
partnership reqs? Negative. The devaluation of the cert is a completely
different argument. My point is, you are allowed and can do this. If cisco
legally defines what a "full time" time contract means, that could put a lot
of partners in
trouble. Scott, your missing my point. It's not a violation unless
they say it is. I could also work as a part time employee directly to
the company, working 3-4 hours a week (not a contractor) and help them
get their partnership.
On 3/1/08, Greg Wendel <gwendel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Scott,
> Remember, if the glove fits you must acquit =).
>
> On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Scott Vermillion <
> scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com> wrote:
>
> > (The following e-mail should be deleted by Tony Varriale and any who
> > agree
> > that this discussion is a waste of precious BW...)
> >
> > Darth,
> >
> > I took the time to read this article. From the Cisco PR Manager of
> > Corporate Communications:
> >
> > "...we see a couple of issues with the Rent-a-Cert idea..."
> >
> > "According to our Channel Partner Program requirements, partners can
> > employ
> > *full-time* contractor employees..."
> >
> > "As part of our annual partner audit we validate the employment
> > contracts
> > for the required CCIEs."
> >
> > "This requirement to remain compliant between annual audits makes
> > Rent-a-Cert a short-term fix or expensive long-term proposition."
> >
> >
> > From the author of the friggin article himself:
> >
> > "...the Rent A Cert idea is penny wise and dollar *foolish for the cert
> > holder*, although it may appear at first to be a great way to earn extra
> > monthly cash from your cert.
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > Because it will drive down the salaries of all Cisco cert holders once
> > Cisco
> > partners get into the habit of "cheaply renting" Cisco certs."
> >
> > "Initially the Rent A Cert idea will appear advantageous for Cisco
> > partners
> > renting CCIEs on the "cheap".
> >
> > But where is that partner's value proposition?"
> >
> > ???????
> >
> > Darth, I cannot imagine why you posted this article in your own defense
> > - it
> > totally discredits the concept in every way possible! You may as well
> > have
> > introduced as evidence the missing murder weapon at your own trial.
> >
> > ???????
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > darth router
> > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:03 AM
> > To: Joseph Brunner
> > Cc: Tony Schaffran (GS); Robert Hosford; sheherezada@gmail.com;
> > tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; Cisco certification
> > Subject: Re: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >
> > It's not against the rules to contract out to a partner and for them to
> > use
> > your CCIE. You guys ought to read that article. Honestly, all this talk
> > about devaluing the cert is nonsense. Cisco has ultimate control of what
> > devalues the cert, not us. They are managing to do that by their own
> > greedy
> > devices. My employer uses my IE (Yep, I work there full time) to get
> > into
> > jobs. That does not mean I do the work. Isn't that unethical? Nope, it's
> > just another day of business in the partner world.
> >
> > DR
> >
> > On 3/1/08, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > As a side note:
> > >
> > > Is there any end user company that will "only buy from a gold
> > partner"?
> > >
> > > I think most of the companies I know want far far more than 38% off
> > > list...
> > >
> > > (they want 50%+ off list) and for that we go to networkhardware.com
> > >
> > > When you are buy two of everything and allowing NO SINGLE POINT OF
> > FAILURE
> > > (all my designs) what difference does "new but used" make?
> > >
> > > I think Cisco's partner model needs adjusting... if the only value
> > gold
> > > partners bring is the discount how long will that last?
> > >
> > > Most of the support I see being done by tac - customer's don't want
> > gold
> > > partners billing $200+ per hour to configure a few vlans anyway...
> > >
> > > They just get those guys they hired with "CCNA or CCIE required ads"
> > on
> > > dice
> > > to open a support call.
> > >
> > > LOL
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > Of
> > > Tony
> > > Schaffran (GS)
> > >
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 10:39 AM
> > > To: 'Robert Hosford'; sheherezada@gmail.com
> > > Cc: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; 'Cisco certification'
> > > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> > >
> > > That is an entirely different scenario.
> > >
> > > The umbrella company itself is employing the resources regardless of
> > them
> > > being spread across the 26 different divisions. If they have a
> > customer
> > > that has come to them because of their gold status, that umbrella
> > company
> > > has those 5 CCIE's on hand to provide the service the customer expects
> > > from
> > > a gold partner if needed.
> > >
> > > That is actually how the company I work for operates. We have offices
> > all
> > > over the United States and employ over one hundres CCIE's. Most of
> > our
> > > reigons could not support Gold status on their own, but if they need a
> > > CCIE
> > > resource for a customer, they can pull that resource from another
> > region.
> > > This is smart business.
> > >
> > > Now consider a customer has gone to a company because of their gold
> > status
> > > and that gold partner has just rented CCIE numbers and does not have
> > the
> > > resources available. The customer would possible not get the service
> > they
> > > expected, the gold partner status would lose its value and eventually,
> > the
> > > CCIE would no longer be needed.
> > >
> > > Look at the big picture. Just because renting CCIE numbers happens
> > and is
> > > a
> > > common practice in some areas, does not make it right. In the long
> > run,
> > > it
> > > will only hurt us.
> > >
> > > I think we have said enough on this topic. If you still think there
> > is no
> > > problem with renting your CCIE number, then there is nothing stopping
> > you.
> > > That is just the kind of person you are.
> > >
> > > Good luck with your future.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tony Schaffran
> > > Network Analyst
> > > CCIE #11071
> > > CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > > NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
> > >
> > > www.cconlinelabs.com
> > > Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Robert Hosford [mailto:rhosford@certifiednets.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 5:27 AM
> > > To: sheherezada@gmail.com; Tony Schaffran (GS)
> > > Cc: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; Cisco certification
> > > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> > >
> > > Tony,
> > >
> > > Tell me, does the following scenario hurt your CCIE value? Is it
> > ethical?
> > >
> > > A Company has 26 separate divisions that all have different HR
> > > departments,
> > > different CEOs, different internal payrolls departments, different
> > state
> > > business licenses. Yet the umbrella company claims gold status
> > because
> > > amongst the 26 division there are 5 CCIEs?
> > >
> > > I think hurts your CCIE value. I think it is unethical because for
> > Tax
> > > purposes all 26 divisions are separate. In reality the divisions are
> > 26
> > > different companies. None of the individual companies can be a silver
> > > partner on their own. I don't see you complaining about this kind of
> > > fraud.
> > > This fraud hurts honest Gold Partners that will hire, train, and
> > retain
> > > skilled CCIEs.
> > >
> > > Robert
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > Of
> > > sheherezada@gmail.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 12:37 PM
> > > To: Tony Schaffran (GS)
> > > Cc: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; Cisco certification
> > > Subject: Re: Unassigned CCIE query.
> > >
> > > Tony,
> > >
> > > I think you are right, but in some countries Cisco itself distorts the
> > > market. Have you heard of the unique Cisco concept named "country
> > > grouping"? Say, put together three Eastern European countries and let
> > > partners claim Gold status for each of them, even if they have zero
> > > CCIEs in particular country, just because they happen to count up to
> > > four in the other two altogether.
> > >
> > > Mihai
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Tony Schaffran (GS)
> > > <groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com> wrote:
> > > > I am speaking to all CCIE's.
> > > >
> > > > This practice is simply unethical and serves to only bring down the
> > > value
> > > of
> > > > being a CCIE.
> > > >
> > > > If a company can just buy a number at a discount rate, then why
> > would
> > > any
> > > > company employ a CCIE at a premium rate?
> > > >
> > > > Think about it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tony Schaffran
> > > > Network Analyst
> > > > CCIE #11071
> > > > CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > > > NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
> > > >
> > > > www.cconlinelabs.com
> > > > Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Tony Varriale [mailto:tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:37 AM
> > > > To: 'Tony Schaffran (GS)'; 'Cisco certification'
> > > > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure which "a CCIE" you are speaking to. But, not only
> > does
> > > Cisco
> > > > allow it, it happens.
> > > >
> > > > If you want something to worry about, check out Mr. Reese and his
> > > "don't
> > > pay
> > > > for licenses but Cisco should support the 3rd party market gear"
> > > mantra.
> > > > That has way more wide spread impact on the community and economy.
> > > >
> > > > Tony
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> > Behalf Of
> > > Tony
> > > > Schaffran (GS)
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 12:58 PM
> > > > To: 'Tony Varriale'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> > > > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> > > >
> > > > This topic touches on basic ethics and I would hope a CCIE would
> > have a
> > > > higher standard.
> > > >
> > > > Is it right for a company to just buy a CCIE number to get the
> > partner
> > > > discounts and deceive their clients by claiming to be a gold
> > partner or
> > > such
> > > > without really having the resources on hand?
> > > >
> > > > To me, this just seems fundamentally wrong.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tony Schaffran
> > > > Network Analyst
> > > > CCIE #11071
> > > > CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > > > NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
> > > >
> > > > www.cconlinelabs.com
> > > > Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> > Behalf Of
> > > Tony
> > > > Varriale
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 10:48 AM
> > > > To: 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> > > > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> > > >
> > > > Yes it is. I would recommend not using that service you listed.
> > You
> > > can
> > > > easily find someone to take it if you are in a major metro area by
> > > asking
> > > > around and possible even from your local Cisco office.
> > > >
> > > > Normal rates are $2-3k/month with a 12 month contract.
> > > >
> > > > Tony
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> > Behalf Of
> > > > Darren Johnson
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:41 AM
> > > > To: 'Cisco certification'
> > > > Subject: Unassigned CCIE query.
> > > >
> > > > Hey all. As per my post last week, I passed the lab and now have an
> > > > unassigned CCIE number (I paid for study and lab myself). I'm now
> > in a
> > > > position where I'm weighing up my options. Is it possible to 'rent'
> > out
> > > my
> > > > CCIE number to a company, whilst still remaining employed by my
> > present
> > > > employer? I have heard of rentacert.com but people seemed skeptical
> > of
> > > it.
> > > >
> > > > Let me stress, I DO NOT WANT TO VIOLATE ANY CISCO POLICIES and if
> > > renting
> > > > out a cert is doing so, I WILL NOT DO IT. However, if it is
> > > possible/legal
> > > > and people out there do it, can they kindly explain how it works. I
> > > want
> > > to
> > > > get as much value out of my cert as possible.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for ANY advice
> > > >
> > > > Darren
> > > > #20078
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___________________________________________________________
> > > > Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier
> > to
> > > use"
> > > > The Wall Street Journal
> > > > http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
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> > > >
> > > >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
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> > > >
> > > >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
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> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
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> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
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> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gregory Wendel
> Springfield VA, 22153
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