From: CCIEin2006 (ciscocciein2006@gmail.com)
Date: Sun Jan 08 2006 - 12:28:23 GMT-3
Scott I totally hear you regarding headhunter brain damage. Unfortunately
for many positions (unless you know someone on the inside) you have to get
past these gatekeepers just to get that first interview.
Do you have advice on how to explain to headhunters or those bobble-head
hiring managers that although you have havent's worked specifically on
VOIP you know how to lay down a solid foundation to allow VOIP run over it?
I think the problem with a lot of these hiring managers is that they are
looking for specifically x,y,z. I remember past interview we're I tried
explaining to the hiring manager that although I don't experience working on
Checkpoint firewalls, I have several years experience configuring other
flavors of firewalls including PIX firewalls and linksys firewalls,
therefore I should be able to learn Checkpoint very quickly.
Do you know what the hiring managers response to that is?...Next!
And I'm quickly escorted out the door...
On 1/8/06, Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
> Well, ok, that had part to do with it.
>
> CEO's of many companies likely don't have a clue what a CCIE is, therefore
> you're right, they don't care. However, while a CEO's decision making is
> (or should be) financial, there are two sides to it. If you get paid a lot
> of money that doesn't always look good. But if you bring in a lot of
money,
> or save a lot of money for the company, then that makes you valuable. CCIE
> or not, a CEO pays attention to that. Or if it's a larger company, then
> your director/manager/VP/someone will be looking at those things. I think
> you're trying to make layoffs into a black and white decision, which they
> are not.
>
> With large company mergers, there may be "redundant" talent. It happens.
> But that hardly means that SBC or ATT are the only players around who need
> good talent. Nor are they the only ones pondering MPLS.
>
> As for the R&S + Voice concept, you're looking at headhunter brain damage
> at its finest. Unfortunately many people have the idea that you may, which
> is a CCIE certification doesn't always help you. That translates to "oh
> look, many lost their jobs and therefore we can find them cheap", which
> isn't a far cry to "can't we up the ante and look for a specialty to create
> an unfeasible job market at a pittance pay?".... :)
>
> You're right in that they are both completely different, but. I view it
> more like I would expect a neurosurgeon to still be able to make competent
> decisions regarding my overall body (hence a NeuroSurgeon is still an MD,
> not "just" a brain doctor). Voice is voice, but it still has to run on a
> functional network. If you have a crappy network, you're screwed either
> way. So having BOTH talents there truly is helpful.
>
> Which to go for? Whatever you want to. Kinda like when we were teenagers
> and people were asking "What do you want to do with your life?". Things
> haven't changed much, and it's still up to us. There is market to be
> found. The more talent and experience you have, the better.
>
> Sorry you're having a bad week though! I hope it gets better!
>
> Scott
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* CCIEin2006 [mailto:ciscocciein2006@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 08, 2006 9:05 AM
> *To:* Imal kalutotage
> *Cc:* Scott Morris; Suzan S.; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> *Subject:* Re: SP CCIE
>
>
> I think what Scott is saying (without putting words in his mouth) is that
> if you're good at what you do, you won't get laid off.
>
> What I'm saying is that corporate CEO's don't give a rats a$$ about your
> CCIE certification. When its time to cut head count you will get laid off
> even if you have six CCIE's. Sure they may keep you around a few extra
weeks
> (which may be enough time to find another job as you wait for the impending
> doom) but the end result is the same.
>
> I'm sorry to sound cynical, but I have a few good friends (one of them is
> a brilliant CCIE) who got laid off when the World-CON $hit hit the fan.
Then
> just when you thought it was safe to go back into the service
> provider waters SBC and ATT merged and another one of my talented buddies
> got laid off.
>
> Three reasons why the Service Provider track is a bad idea:
> 1. Dot-bomb - yup we're still in the recession.
> 2. World-CON - Still feeling that too.
> 3. Mergers and acquisitions - service providers are consolidating and
> buying each other out - which means laying off redundant staff.
>
> I would suggest taking either the Voice track or the Security track - both
> of which are hot items right now. Just do a search on your favorite job
site
> and see how many hits you get for VOIP.
>
> Which brings me to another gripe - why are companies suddenly expecting
> you to become an expert at both Routing/Switching and Voice? Isn't that
kind
> of like expecting a neurosurgeon to also be an expert dentist? We're
talking
> about two different specialties here! I mean sure there are some
> commonalities in the tracks such as QOS but other than that configuring
Call
> Manager and Unity is a totally separate skill altogether. I firmly believe
> that if try to be the jack of all trades you will be the master of none.
>
> I apologize in advance for my bitchy tone, just having a bad week.
>
> On 1/8/06, Imal kalutotage <imal.kalutotage@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Scott,
> > I didnot understand, your mail at all.. sorry for my poor english..
> > Can you re-phrase it.. Becase I donot want to miss your valuable
> > inputs..
> > Because I am also interested in SP track, But if no scope or money in
> > there
> > then I should spend my time on something else..
> >
> > Pls advice
> > Cheers
> > Imal
> >
> >
> > On 1/8/06, Scott Morris < swm@emanon.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I would hope though, that those being laid off are not the necessary
> > > talent
> > > needed to keep things running. Or, on the flip side, there's nothing
> > > wrong
> > > with consulting in gigs that deal in those kinds of issues.
> > >
> > > And "service provider" is WAY beyond the stereotypical telco structure
> > > from
> > > years gone by.
> > >
> > > There's plenty of work to be had.
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > > Of
> > > CCIEin2006
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 2:44 PM
> > > To: Suzan S.
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Re: SP CCIE
> > >
> > > Why bother? Service providers are still laying people off since the
> > > dot-bomb
> > > and World-con days...
> > >
> > > On 1/6/06, Suzan S. < suzan_ccie@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dears,
> > > >
> > > > Please anyone took the SP CCIE lab this month? How is the Lab? and
> > > is
> > > > there any good preparation workbooks?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Suzan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
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