From: Logan, Harold (loganh@xxxxxxxxx)
Date: Fri Aug 09 2002 - 13:53:41 GMT-3
I feel there's a fine line to be walked here. Myself, there's a nerd-knob that
I couldn't figure out on my lab that I haven't been able to find since I took i
t. I would like to pose the question to the list for discussion, but have speci
fically refrained from doing so for fear of the NDA witch hunt. In fact, I thin
k it would be an interesting discussion. Now it's been over a month since I fai
led the lab, so anyone taking the lab right now is guaranteed to have a differe
nt lab than I did. Can I discuss that problem now? Clearly there'd be no harm i
n doing so. If I don't preface my question with "THIS IS A QUESTION I HAD ON TH
E LAB" then I don't feel that's an NDA violation.
Taking the NDA ad nauseum, is it an NDA violation to ask the list what command
enables the RIP protocol? I may (or may not) have had to do that on my lab, so
isn't asking the list members how to do so? I'm no lawyer, but that's clearly n
ot the spirit of the NDA. While I'm at it, should I violate the NDA further by
asking how to activate an interface or give it an IP address?
Case in point, a month or 3 ago I answered a question someone asked regarding O
SPF hello and dead timers, and in my answer I mentioned practice labs requiring
a candidate to change certain timers without using the usual commands. Another
list member admonished me off-line, telling me that I knew full well that I wa
sn't talking about practice labs, implying that I was participating in an NDA-v
iolating discussion. The humor there is that I hadn't taken my lab yet, I reall
y was talking about practice labs.
I think the best thing for us to do is encourage some integrity in posting ques
tions, and let Cisco worry about enforcing the NDA.
Hal
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Troy Rader [mailto:troy@onenet.net]
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 10:14 PM
> To: Jake; Brian Dennis; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: OT: NDA - My response to the problem
>
>
> People at RTP have told me that they monitor this list (see a previous
> thread for the definition of RTP). Melody Green told me on
> the phone once
> that a guy posted ccie written questions here, and they
> flagged him in the
> system. He lived about 20 minutes from Cisco in rtp, so they
> knew he would
> go there for the exam. They were going to confront him when
> he showed up.
> I would have loved to have seen that. They also prosecute people for
> violations, and when I last tested, the proctor stated that
> they had engaged
> the FBI in pursuit of some individuals in regard to the CCIE
> tests. I am
> personally happy that they take this so seriously. Perhaps I
> am a fool for
> believing foolish stories, but I do believe these accounts are true.
>
> Troy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jake" <jakeczyz@yahoo.com>
> To: "Brian Dennis" <brian@5g.net>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 8:28 PM
> Subject: RE: OT: NDA - My response to the problem
>
>
> > Folks with numbers,
> > Enough has probably been said about the NDA, but I wanted to
> matter-of-factly state
> > what I personally am doing when I see a post which is identical to a
> question I had on my
> > exam (as may or may not have happened very recently ;). I'm simply
> forwarding that
> > message to "ccie@cisco.com" with the following note:
> > -----------------
> > CCIE Program Administrators,
> > Sorry to bother, but I am forwarding an email which
> looks like an
> NDA violation.
> > Please handle as you see fit or disregard. I'm just
> concerned about the
> program's
> > integrity.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > ----------------
> >
> > If you like, you can do the same. Since I only took it
> once, I haven't
> seen many
> > questions. Maybe they'll find repeat offenders and track
> these dishonest
> people down; I
> > certainly hope they would for what is riding on this cert
> for everyone. I
> hope none of us
> > would answer one of these questions, especially ones that
> can be looked up
> at the brain
> > dump of all brain dumps - CCO (if you ask me what that is,
> I will shoot
> you). ;)
> >
> > [Please (please!) respond off-line if you have a personal
> issue with my
> (or any) post.
> > We've filled the list up with enough junk these last few
> days to last a
> lifetime.] Excuse
> > me for my contribution to the heap.
> >
> > IMHO,
> > Jake
> > 9102
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Brian Dennis <brian@5g.net> wrote:
> > > It's sad but true about the NDA violations on this list.
> The number of
> > > NDA violations is definitely growing. In a way this list
> is actually
> > > hurting the CCIE program because of the small number of
> people that post
> > > questions that are clear violations of the NDA.
> > >
> > > Brian Dennis, CCIE #2210 (R&S/ISP Dial)
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > > steven.j.nelson@bt.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 10:52 AM
> > > To: Mark.Snow@newcome.com; Jeffbk@austin.rr.com;
> > > omarmasood360@hotmail.com; ccieexam2002@yahoo.com;
> PImmo@CTITELE.COM;
> > > ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: OT: RE: Dark rivers of the heart?
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > Agreed, but I see more NDA's on this list daily than from
> any other
> > > sources
> > > online. I have taken the a couple of times and it seems
> almost every day
> > > there is a question posted with the exact same wording
> that was on one
> > > my
> > > labs...
> > >
> > > There seems to be more cheaters lurking and posting to
> this list than
> > > just
> > > this guy.
> > >
> > > Just an observation.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Snow, Mark [mailto:Mark.Snow@newcome.com]
> > > Sent: 07 August 2002 17:59
> > > To: 'Jeff K'; Omar Masood; CCIE FUN; Immo, Paul;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: OT: RE: Dark rivers of the heart?
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't think this guy should ever get the cert if this
> is his attitude
> > > towards cheaters.
> > > This cert is one of the highest in regards partially
> because of the
> > > small
> > > elite community that makes it up, and their willingness
> to work together
> > > as
> > > a team and help each other. We (not I yet) want to keep
> it small, so
> > > that
> > > junk like this is always excluded from such community.
> > >
> > > my 2 cents
> > >
> > > Snow
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jeff K [mailto:Jeffbk@austin.rr.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:38 PM
> > > To: Omar Masood; CCIE FUN; Immo, Paul; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Re: OT: RE: Dark rivers of the heart?
> > >
> > >
> > > That is an interesting answer. So, you will question the
> value of the
> > > CCIE
> > > because of stuff like that, but will say you don't have
> the obligation
> > > to
> > > notify Cisco of something as major as someone having 4
> copies of the lab
> > > manual because you technically aren't certified yet? No
> offense, but I
> > > don't think you have much room to talk about the value of
> the program...
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Omar Masood" <omarmasood360@hotmail.com>
> > > To: "Jeff K" <Jeffbk@austin.rr.com>; "CCIE FUN"
> > > <ccieexam2002@yahoo.com>;
> > > "Immo, Paul" <PImmo@CTITELE.COM>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 12:31 PM
> > > Subject: Re: OT: RE: Dark rivers of the heart?
> > >
> > >
> > > > thank you for defining the truth, I not certified yet,
> so I don't
> > > think
> > > the
> > > > non-disclosures concerns me yet.
> > > > **Omar Masood 360**
> > > >
> > > > e/m: omarmasood360@hotmail.com
> > > > or: omarmasood@aol.com
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Jeff K" <Jeffbk@austin.rr.com>
> > > > To: <omarmasood360@hotmail.com>; "CCIE FUN"
> <ccieexam2002@yahoo.com>;
> > > "Immo,
> > > > Paul" <PImmo@CTITELE.COM>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:24 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: OT: RE: Dark rivers of the heart?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > As this is somewhat of a religious arguement, I try
> to avoid even
> > > getting
> > > > > involved... But, come on, do you expect everyone to
> stop pursuing
> > > their
> > > > > CCIE because you got your number? As far as number of
> > > certifications
> > > go,
> > > > I
> > > > > got my number (8007) August 14, 2001. Rick got his
> number (9482) on
> > > June
> > > > > 11, 2002. So, over an approximate 10 month period,
> that is about
> > > 150
> > > > > certifications / month. I'm not saying that is a
> linear trend (I
> > > know
> > > > there
> > > > > are variables here like 9/11 and the two-day to
> one-day change) -- I
> > > have
> > > > no
> > > > > desire to look at the data that much. Anyway, Cisco
> contends that
> > > the
> > > > CCIE
> > > > > is a way to identify people with a certain level of
> expertise with
> > > their
> > > > > hardware / software and various networking concepts.
> They don't
> > > promise
> > > > it
> > > > > to be the solution to all your problems, nor do they
> promise you the
> > > > > greatest jobs making the most money. True, some
> people get the CCIE
> > > who
> > > > > really shouldn't. This happens in every area. Don't
> try to say
> > > that
> > > > > everyone with a college degree is an expert in their
> field. And,
> > > there
> > > > are
> > > > > people out there willing to cheat to ge the cert.
> Once again, this
> > > is
> > > not
> > > > a
> > > > > problem unique to the CCIE. It is up to us to make
> the decision to
> > > do
> > > it
> > > > > the right way and to notify the program when we find
> out about this
> > > stuff.
> > > > > It is really in our hands to keep the value of the
> CCIE high. BTW,
> > > did
> > > > you
> > > > > report the guy who had 4 versions of the RS lab
> booklet? You are
> > > pretty
> > > > > much obligated to do so...
> > > > >
> > > > > One last thing, once we hit 5-digits, that still
> means there are
> > > about
> > > > 9000
> > > > > CCIE numbers that have been issued worldwide.
> Subtract those who
> > > aren't
> > > > > current, not working in the field, etc. and it's a
> much smaller
> > > number --
> > > > > still a pretty elite group, I'd say.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck to all those still pursuing their CCIE,
> > > > >
> > > > > -Jeff., CCIE 8007
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: <omarmasood360@hotmail.com>
> > > > > To: "CCIE FUN" <ccieexam2002@yahoo.com>; "Immo, Paul"
> > > <PImmo@CTITELE.COM>;
> > > > > <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 11:33 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: OT: RE: Dark rivers of the heart?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I don't make the figures, Cisco do, do you really
> think they tell
> > > the
> > > > > public
> > > > > > everything? All comes out int the annual reports
> only. See for ur
> > > self.
> > > > > > Cisco along with Microsoft,Oracle and Juniper are
> companies that
> > > > > specialise
> > > > > > in 'generalisation personalisation'. Look around, I
> have heard
> > > from a
> > > > very
> > > > > > reliable source that he had 4 different variations of RS lab
> > > booklet
> > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > lab - before he sat the exam - he passed with a
> very high score.
> > > Look
> > > up
> > > > > > what a public must do to stay public. business is
> business, right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > **Omar Masood 360**
> > > > > >
> > > > > > e/m: omarmasood360@hotmail.com
> > > > > > or: omarmasood@aol.com
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > Wrom: OKSTTZRCLBDXRQBGJSNBOHMKHJYFMYXOEAI
> > > > > > To: "Immo, Paul" <PImmo@CTITELE.COM>; "'Omar Masood'"
> > > > > > <omarmasood360@hotmail.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:22 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: OT: RE: Dark rivers of the heart?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Interesting ......
> > > > > > > but i don't think that is a valid figure
> > > > > > > --- "Immo, Paul" <PImmo@CTITELE.COM> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Where are you getting your figures?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Paul M. Immo CCDP, CCNP, MCSE
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > CTI Telecom
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sr. Solution Engineer
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tel: 703-834-1538
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cell: 703-930-5724
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > Wrom: JJPHSCRTNHGSWZIDREXCAXZOWCONEUQZAAFXISHJEXXIMQ
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 10:29 AM
> > > > > > > > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: Dark rivers of the heart?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > With now a reported 100 CCIEs being certified every
> > > > > > > > 10 days...is it still
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > same certification Cisco have us believe? Think
> > > > > > > > about it, 100 IEs in such a
> > > > > > > > short period of time.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Sep 07 2002 - 19:48:21 GMT-3