From: vadim shayevich (vshayevich@xxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Wed May 01 2002 - 09:04:04 GMT-3
In general it is much easier to discuss technical stuff, especially related
to the particular certification, than the clash of philosophical categories
such as knowledge and experience.
Discussion of Cisco certification related have a definite outcome,
because an answer is somewhere. Group study helps the fast search for this
answer because everyone can look in different corners or knows it.
Looking for an answer in the philosophical discussion usually an individual
journey, where every person might achieve the balance at different point of
his life. Group discussion in this case looks like dog fight where everyone
knows it's own truth and trying to preserve it's own territory using words
like "experience", "will never get close to my routers" etc.
Don't ask yourself philosophical questions when you are trying to achieve
something very realistic such as vendor certification, created by
technicians for technicians - this will distract you from studies and get
you depressed. Just get it done.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ludwig A. Morales" <morales_l@hotmail.com>
To: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com>
Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: CCIE #9240
> And your point is?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com>
> To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:21 AM
> Subject: Re: CCIE #9240
>
>
> > At 9:14 PM -0400 4/30/02, Ludwig Morales wrote:
> > >Cool dude, this is the logest tread i've seem im this mailing list's
> history
> > >without using "NDA" .
> > >I was thinking to let it slide myself but naaaa.
> > >
> > >First of all the fact that he took less time than you could provee that
> the
> > >exam is easier now or that he's more discipline and more inteligent
than
> > >you, that depends on your perspective and the choise that less ofends
> you.
> > >
> > >Now to the CCIE Vs. experince stuff, i may be wrong but i think you
are
> > >comparing apples and oranges, i think i told this story before but well
> what
> > >the heck..
> >
> > Be careful about comparing anything to apples or you may irritate
> > Priscilla. :-)
> >
> > >.
> > >
> > >in the first CCIE bootcamp i took our instructor conducted an small
> survey
> > >to measure the level of all atendees by making a list of the
tecnologies
> he
> > >was about to explain by drawing two columns on a sheet, one was your
> > >teorical experience and one was your practical experience regardig each
> > >technology, one of the atendees sheets came to he's atention when he
saw
> > >that unlike all the rest of us this dude had more practical experience
> than
> > >theory, when he asked how come his answer was that he was able to
> configure
> > >and troubleshoot up to a point but for him sometimes the router was
like
> the
> > >black box of a plane, he didn't know what the hell was inside of it.
> when
> > >the TAC told him to change some parameter he simply did it and did not
> > >understand what was the purpose (this dude has been working with Cisco
> for 4
> > >years) so you see, CUIE does give you something, the knowledge of how
> each
> > >thing works, I dare anyone with more the 5 years of experience but with
> > >never laying a hand on Doyle's to explain to me how igrp calculate it's
> > >metric (remember the k values?) or the Lollipop-Shape Sequence number
> space.
> >
> > :-) But how did JEFF learn it? (Actually, I asked him, and he got
> > some informationr released, by Dino Farinacci IIRC). The lollipop
> > sequence came from Radia Perlman (I was the reviewer of Jeff's OSPF
> > chapter), and I believe she and/or the standard is credited. The
> > best writeup of the lollipop is in her Interconnections book --
> > better, I think, than John Moy's.
> >
> > >.
> > >
> > >Well anyway for those of you in the track dont let a coment like this
> > >disapoint you, he's not right, he's not wrong that's just his point of
> view
> > >and you should not be worried about it (unless Robert is your boss,
> jejejje)
> > >
> > >good luck to us, work hard and congratulate those who have achive their
> goal
> > >that helps us all aswell.
> > >
> > >OH and one last question, do you wake up in the morning and have all
the
> > >kwoledge to pass a CCIE exam? No? Then how do you get this kwoledge?
> > >Uhhhhh trough experience?
> >
> > Take a look at a picture of Scott Bradner sometime; he has a slight
> > resemblance to Santa Claus. Vint Cerf is no spring chicken. They
> > still study.
> >
> > >
> > >PS, been working in IT for 6 years now (thank God i'll be a CCIE that
> have
> > >been pushing and pulling routers for 6 years)
> >
> > let's see...I first started programming in 1966 or 7 (it blurs) and
> > actually put together my 1st network in 1970. Hmmm...this week, I've
> > learned some things about the application of control theory to
> > routing protocols, about measurement timing issues in OSPF
> > performance measurement, in some legal requirements for crypto in
> > medical networks, and have been Perl programming since last week!
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