Re: frog is quad ccie now - wtf?

Great analogy

Chris

> On 20 Apr 2015, at 11:30 pm, Hubert Hinsley <hubert.hinsley_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Andrew,
>
> Please excuse my ignorance because I do not know who Wayne Gretsky is! :(
>
> To use a hockey, or sporting, analogy...I would suggest that as long as you
> are also a very good hockey player (read 'network engineer') then it does
> not matter where the puck is, has been, or is going to be...
> It doesn't even matter which position you might play in does it? Players
> often change position over the course of their careers don't they?
> What I mean to say is that as long as you invest in yourself and have good
> skills, I am sure you will be fine and have a fantastic career in this very
> interesting IT/Network world.
>
> With regards to where you want to go, I would suggest you should go with
> what interests you, purely based on the fact that if it interests you..you
> will probably find it much easier to learn?
>
> Like yourself, I have very little interest in Voice.
> I am interested in other technologies (RS and SP), and I am sure there is
> still enough scope in there to keep me busy for very many years, without
> having to worry myself silly (right now!) about SDN, DevOps, Scripting,
> Programming....or whatever the latest fashion happens to be...! ;0)
> I'm sure that I will probably have to learn these skills at some point but
> I would not consider them to be my 'core' skills as a network engineer.
> Those 'core' skills would have to be the protocols and the technologies...
>
> Consider this....If somebody makes a 'mother' of a mistake whilst
> configuring an Enterprise/SP network with the fancy new SDN tool of the
> day, is knowing SDN/DevOps/Scripting going to help you save your job?
> Or is it going to be whether you are able to pick your way through OSPF,
> BGP, MPLS..etc..etc...and solve that critical network problem that you -
> or, possibly your over-enthusiastic colleague - just created? ;0)
>
> At the end of the day this is about 'paying-the-rent' and
> 'putting-food-on-the-table' isn't it?
> As well as spending hours, weeks, months, years studying and taking exams
> of course, but that's the fun bit... ;0)
>
> I am sure that we all have our preferences but I'm guessing that the
> primary reason we do this is to be employed in a good role, in a good
> company, doing some interesting 'stuff' most of the time?
>
> For all of the effort and pain that we go through to reach our desired
> level of expertise, whatever that might be, I much prefer that particular
> option to the alternative "do you want fries with that?".... ;0)
>
> Therefore, work hard, be patient, be good at what you do, and the results
> and opportunities will appear and come your way for sure.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Best Regards, Hubert.
>
> On 20 April 2015 at 15:46, Andrew Podosenin <andrew.podosenin_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hubert,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the explanation. I remember the saying by hockey player Wane
>> Gretzky: bI skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has
>> been.b So, I am trying to better understand where the puck is going in
>> networking world. Originally I thought it would be PfR, now I think it is
>> the SDN. My friends have successfully identified the explosion of VoIP and
>> multicast for high-frequency trading. Both are quite happy now. I am not
>> sure whatbs the next big one.
>>
>>
>>
>> As to the personal competencies, I have 5-6 years of networking
>> experience, CC[N,S,D,I]P, extensive Check Point and ISS, some Sonic Wall
>> and Netscreen. Have interest in SP stuff, hate voice, do not care for
>> storage or design, do not mind wireless and security. Went to the Triangle
>> several times. Last summer aced the troubleshooting but failed the build
>> (~60%). Have some formal education (PhD in comp chem. and MS in CS).
>>
>> Trying to better understand what should be added to my skill set. Most
>> importantly b I do not see where the puck is now going. If you have any
>> ideas on the subject b please share.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Hubert Hinsley <hubert.hinsley_at_gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Andrew,
>>> From what I see hear in the UK, as well as good all round Cisco R&S
>>> skills, a network engineer will certainly need to have knowledge of Nexus
>>> and Juniper.
>>> This is for what I would call layer-2/layer-3 "connectivity" skills and
>>> experience.
>>> Alternatively, for those roles with a security focus, ASA/CheckPoint/Palo
>>> Alto/Fortinet/Juniper is in demand.
>>> For those roles with a load-balancing focus then you should look at F5,
>>> NetScaler and ACE.
>>> For those roles with an SP focus, then definitely IOS-XR, Juniper Junos,
>>> and Alcatel exposure too.
>>> You will quite likely be asked to have a mix of all of the above, with
>>> maybe some skills being more important than the others depending on the
>>> specific role and situation.
>>> But I guess you cannot do the 'high-end' stuff unless you have a good
>>> understanding of the basics.
>>> So I would start from a Cisco R&S foundation, which I would consider to
>>> be pretty essential, and build from there, depending on what interests
> you.
>>> Obviously, your mileage may vary, depending on where you are. Hope this
>>> helps.
>>> Best Regards, Hubert.
>>>
>>>> On 20 April 2015 at 13:33, Mark <infosecaz_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> if you have solid and genuine experience it s a worthwhile than crap ccie
>>>> 's , in the market for the last 10 years ccie lab exams are sold out
>>>> openly in the market , cisco is also aware about it they are playing all
>>>> dirty tricks to change the labs frequently and again sold in market big
>>>> money making business
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Andrew Podosenin <
>>>> andrew.podosenin_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Experts,
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if you were to start your career today, what skills would you
>>>> sharpen
>>>>> besides passing CCIE R&S lab? Things that come to my mind are:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hands-on PfR, hands-on SDN, design to CCDP level, some IOS-XR, some
>>>> NX-OS,
>>>>> deeper knowledge of EEM, one scripting language (Perl or Python),
>>>> TRILL or
>>>>> equivalent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did I miss much?
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. I fully understand that extensive industry experience is
>>>> required, I
>>>>> am
>>>>> asking about the areas of concentration.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>>>> Of
>>>>> gaston brait
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2015 5:53 PM
>>>>> To: Narbik Kocharians
>>>>> Cc: Naveen; Radioactive Frog; Chris Rae; Cisco certification
>>>>> Subject: Re: frog is quad ccie now - wtf?
>>>>>
>>>>> The programmability is only one side of what aci is trying to do.
>>>>> It is also a change on how we design networks, and most of our core
>>>>> networking skills will remain relevant ( ACI is an IS-IS underlay
>>>> fabric
>>>>> with vxlan as the overlay) MP-BGP is user to inject external routes.
>>>> All
>>>>> the
>>>>> programming you will do to enable the contracts so the epg can talk to
>>>> each
>>>>> other, will still be based on networking principles.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do see programming making it's way into part of the skillset that
>>>> will be
>>>>> needed, but no the core.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Narbik Kocharians
>>>>>> <narbik_at_micronicstraining.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you know that there is a shortage of CCIEs in the world?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I agree eventually things will evolve, but ACI will not take
>>>> over
>>>>>> such that your knowledge of R&S, Security, SP, Wireless, Storage and
>>>>>> etc etc will become obsolete. ACI will be another topic another
>>>>>> technology, another way of doing things. ACI is not for every
>>>> company.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From time to time I work for Cisco, IBM, TTI, and train students from
>>>>>> Accenture, WWF and many more and I talk to them about their new
>>>>>> project, and I don't think that I am clueless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Naveen <navin.ms_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Narbik - You misunderstood. My ccie was definitely useful until now,
>>>>>>> but don't think it will be valued the same going forward.. Neither
>>>>>>> Programming nor Networking is rocket science. Both needs good amount
>>>>>>> of dedication to be productive. Whether a programmer needs to be
>>>>>>> taught Networking or vice-versa is certainly a different topic and
>>>>>>> needs due discussion in another thread. I'll let folks decide and
>>>> choose
>>>>> for themselves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Naveen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS: For disclosure sake, I've done Programming, Networking and
>>>> worked
>>>>>>> for Cisco, Ericsson. Looking at present and whats coming in near
>>>>>>> future, I know what am talking about.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Narbik Kocharians <
>>>>>>> narbik_at_micronicstraining.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So your knowledge of CCIE in any track is useless? Try to teach a
>>>>>>>> programmer networking.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Naveen <navin.ms_at_gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please allow me to say something here. Don't bet on CCIE alone.
>>>>>>> Networking
>>>>>>>>> Landscape has changed. The market is asking for more DevOps style
>>>>>>>>> work than traditional LAN/WAN admin style jobs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Skills such as Python and REST APIs to control routers/switched,
>>>>>>>>> Application based Networking using Open Stack, Open Daylight ,
>>>>>>>>> OpenFlow are starting to gain importance. These new technologies
>>>>>>>>> are designed for networks to be automatable and reconfigurable in
>>>>>>>>> real time, which should eventually render traditional CCIEs less
>>>>>>>>> useful. Depending on how much
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> one's active career left, it's time to consider this change.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You might argue our protocols might not change, but that might be
>>>>>>>>> true
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the near term (2-3 years). Just look around and see what Open
>>>>>>>>> Networking standards and protocols have done in the last 2-3 years
>>>>>>>>> for Data
>>>>>>> centers,
>>>>>>>>> Enterprises, and Service Providers. Its time our CCIE training
>>>>>>>>> partners re-brand themselves to this new wave.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Naveen.
>>>>>>>>> CCIE25432.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 19, 2015, Narbik Kocharians <
>>>>>>>>> narbik_at_micronicstraining.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations mate. Well done.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 4:41 AM, Radioactive Frog <
>>>>>>> pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>>>>>>>>> I know where you are coming from. Most CCIE (not everyone) would
>>>>>>>>> design,
>>>>>>>>>>> production environment in the lab way!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have seen them in real action where those lab engineer never
>>>>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>>>>> gear and don't know what really the RJ45 console vs DB9 pin
>>>> looks
>>>>>>>>> like.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In my last role a newly minted out uni double CCIE asked me what
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> ATM.
>>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>> said "i know" but i wanted to confirm. I said what do u know
>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>> said -
>>>>>>>>>>> Is it ATM machine where we withdraw money and that ATM connected
>>>>>>>>>>> to ethernet interface. He was fresh from university with 2XCCIE
>>>>>>>>> (RS/SEC). I
>>>>>>>>>>> was like.... wtf. I jokingly said "yes' ATM is the WALL where
>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>> pull
>>>>>>>>>>> money (but only $100 dollars notes).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Shocking!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Chris Rae <chris.rae07_at_me.com
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Quad CCIE is an awesome effort.....as long as you dont design
>>>>>>>>>> production
>>>>>>>>>>>> environments like the Lab then we are all fine! b :o8
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18 Apr 2015, at 4:32 pm, Radioactive Frog <
>>>>>>> pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, some good news...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My target is to stop studying by 2017. No more study
>>>> afterward.
>>>> http://bhatkoti.com/2015/04/16/another-quad-ccie-in-downunder/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are 4xCCIE good enough? What are your thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -frog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> __
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>>>>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>>>>>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>>>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>>>>>>> A Cisco Learning Partner
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> __
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>>>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>>>>> A Cisco Learning Partner
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> __ Subscription information may be found at:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>>> A Cisco Learning Partner
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
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Received on Tue Apr 21 2015 - 11:16:46 ART