Re: frog is quad ccie now - wtf?

Congratulations, Frog! Best wishes in whatever it is you decide you want
to do man.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 11:16 PM, Chris Rae <chris.rae07_at_me.com> wrote:

> Great analogy
>
> Chris
>
> > On 20 Apr 2015, at 11:30 pm, Hubert Hinsley <hubert.hinsley_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Andrew,
> >
> > Please excuse my ignorance because I do not know who Wayne Gretsky is! :(
> >
> > To use a hockey, or sporting, analogy...I would suggest that as long as
> you
> > are also a very good hockey player (read 'network engineer') then it does
> > not matter where the puck is, has been, or is going to be...
> > It doesn't even matter which position you might play in does it? Players
> > often change position over the course of their careers don't they?
> > What I mean to say is that as long as you invest in yourself and have
> good
> > skills, I am sure you will be fine and have a fantastic career in this
> very
> > interesting IT/Network world.
> >
> > With regards to where you want to go, I would suggest you should go with
> > what interests you, purely based on the fact that if it interests
> you..you
> > will probably find it much easier to learn?
> >
> > Like yourself, I have very little interest in Voice.
> > I am interested in other technologies (RS and SP), and I am sure there is
> > still enough scope in there to keep me busy for very many years, without
> > having to worry myself silly (right now!) about SDN, DevOps, Scripting,
> > Programming....or whatever the latest fashion happens to be...! ;0)
> > I'm sure that I will probably have to learn these skills at some point
> but
> > I would not consider them to be my 'core' skills as a network engineer.
> > Those 'core' skills would have to be the protocols and the
> technologies...
> >
> > Consider this....If somebody makes a 'mother' of a mistake whilst
> > configuring an Enterprise/SP network with the fancy new SDN tool of the
> > day, is knowing SDN/DevOps/Scripting going to help you save your job?
> > Or is it going to be whether you are able to pick your way through OSPF,
> > BGP, MPLS..etc..etc...and solve that critical network problem that you -
> > or, possibly your over-enthusiastic colleague - just created? ;0)
> >
> > At the end of the day this is about 'paying-the-rent' and
> > 'putting-food-on-the-table' isn't it?
> > As well as spending hours, weeks, months, years studying and taking exams
> > of course, but that's the fun bit... ;0)
> >
> > I am sure that we all have our preferences but I'm guessing that the
> > primary reason we do this is to be employed in a good role, in a good
> > company, doing some interesting 'stuff' most of the time?
> >
> > For all of the effort and pain that we go through to reach our desired
> > level of expertise, whatever that might be, I much prefer that particular
> > option to the alternative "do you want fries with that?".... ;0)
> >
> > Therefore, work hard, be patient, be good at what you do, and the results
> > and opportunities will appear and come your way for sure.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Best Regards, Hubert.
> >
> > On 20 April 2015 at 15:46, Andrew Podosenin <andrew.podosenin_at_gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hubert,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks for the explanation. I remember the saying by hockey player Wane
> >> Gretzky: b I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has
> >> been.b So, I am trying to better understand where the puck is going in
> >> networking world. Originally I thought it would be PfR, now I think it
> is
> >> the SDN. My friends have successfully identified the explosion of VoIP
> and
> >> multicast for high-frequency trading. Both are quite happy now. I am not
> >> sure whatb s the next big one.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As to the personal competencies, I have 5-6 years of networking
> >> experience, CC[N,S,D,I]P, extensive Check Point and ISS, some Sonic Wall
> >> and Netscreen. Have interest in SP stuff, hate voice, do not care for
> >> storage or design, do not mind wireless and security. Went to the
> Triangle
> >> several times. Last summer aced the troubleshooting but failed the build
> >> (~60%). Have some formal education (PhD in comp chem. and MS in CS).
> >>
> >> Trying to better understand what should be added to my skill set. Most
> >> importantly b I do not see where the puck is now going. If you have any
> >> ideas on the subject b please share.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Hubert Hinsley <
> hubert.hinsley_at_gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello Andrew,
> >>> From what I see hear in the UK, as well as good all round Cisco R&S
> >>> skills, a network engineer will certainly need to have knowledge of
> Nexus
> >>> and Juniper.
> >>> This is for what I would call layer-2/layer-3 "connectivity" skills and
> >>> experience.
> >>> Alternatively, for those roles with a security focus,
> ASA/CheckPoint/Palo
> >>> Alto/Fortinet/Juniper is in demand.
> >>> For those roles with a load-balancing focus then you should look at F5,
> >>> NetScaler and ACE.
> >>> For those roles with an SP focus, then definitely IOS-XR, Juniper
> Junos,
> >>> and Alcatel exposure too.
> >>> You will quite likely be asked to have a mix of all of the above, with
> >>> maybe some skills being more important than the others depending on the
> >>> specific role and situation.
> >>> But I guess you cannot do the 'high-end' stuff unless you have a good
> >>> understanding of the basics.
> >>> So I would start from a Cisco R&S foundation, which I would consider to
> >>> be pretty essential, and build from there, depending on what interests
> > you.
> >>> Obviously, your mileage may vary, depending on where you are. Hope this
> >>> helps.
> >>> Best Regards, Hubert.
> >>>
> >>>> On 20 April 2015 at 13:33, Mark <infosecaz_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> if you have solid and genuine experience it s a worthwhile than crap
> ccie
> >>>> 's , in the market for the last 10 years ccie lab exams are sold out
> >>>> openly in the market , cisco is also aware about it they are playing
> all
> >>>> dirty tricks to change the labs frequently and again sold in market
> big
> >>>> money making business
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Andrew Podosenin <
> >>>> andrew.podosenin_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Dear Experts,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, if you were to start your career today, what skills would you
> >>>> sharpen
> >>>>> besides passing CCIE R&S lab? Things that come to my mind are:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hands-on PfR, hands-on SDN, design to CCDP level, some IOS-XR, some
> >>>> NX-OS,
> >>>>> deeper knowledge of EEM, one scripting language (Perl or Python),
> >>>> TRILL or
> >>>>> equivalent.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Did I miss much?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Andrew
> >>>>>
> >>>>> P.S. I fully understand that extensive industry experience is
> >>>> required, I
> >>>>> am
> >>>>> asking about the areas of concentration.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> >>>> Of
> >>>>> gaston brait
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2015 5:53 PM
> >>>>> To: Narbik Kocharians
> >>>>> Cc: Naveen; Radioactive Frog; Chris Rae; Cisco certification
> >>>>> Subject: Re: frog is quad ccie now - wtf?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The programmability is only one side of what aci is trying to do.
> >>>>> It is also a change on how we design networks, and most of our core
> >>>>> networking skills will remain relevant ( ACI is an IS-IS underlay
> >>>> fabric
> >>>>> with vxlan as the overlay) MP-BGP is user to inject external routes.
> >>>> All
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> programming you will do to enable the contracts so the epg can talk
> to
> >>>> each
> >>>>> other, will still be based on networking principles.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do see programming making it's way into part of the skillset that
> >>>> will be
> >>>>> needed, but no the core.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Narbik Kocharians
> >>>>>> <narbik_at_micronicstraining.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Do you know that there is a shortage of CCIEs in the world?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, I agree eventually things will evolve, but ACI will not take
> >>>> over
> >>>>>> such that your knowledge of R&S, Security, SP, Wireless, Storage and
> >>>>>> etc etc will become obsolete. ACI will be another topic another
> >>>>>> technology, another way of doing things. ACI is not for every
> >>>> company.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From time to time I work for Cisco, IBM, TTI, and train students
> from
> >>>>>> Accenture, WWF and many more and I talk to them about their new
> >>>>>> project, and I don't think that I am clueless.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Naveen <navin.ms_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Narbik - You misunderstood. My ccie was definitely useful until
> now,
> >>>>>>> but don't think it will be valued the same going forward.. Neither
> >>>>>>> Programming nor Networking is rocket science. Both needs good
> amount
> >>>>>>> of dedication to be productive. Whether a programmer needs to be
> >>>>>>> taught Networking or vice-versa is certainly a different topic and
> >>>>>>> needs due discussion in another thread. I'll let folks decide and
> >>>> choose
> >>>>> for themselves.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Naveen.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> PS: For disclosure sake, I've done Programming, Networking and
> >>>> worked
> >>>>>>> for Cisco, Ericsson. Looking at present and whats coming in near
> >>>>>>> future, I know what am talking about.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Narbik Kocharians <
> >>>>>>> narbik_at_micronicstraining.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So your knowledge of CCIE in any track is useless? Try to teach a
> >>>>>>>> programmer networking.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Naveen <navin.ms_at_gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Please allow me to say something here. Don't bet on CCIE alone.
> >>>>>>> Networking
> >>>>>>>>> Landscape has changed. The market is asking for more DevOps style
> >>>>>>>>> work than traditional LAN/WAN admin style jobs.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Skills such as Python and REST APIs to control routers/switched,
> >>>>>>>>> Application based Networking using Open Stack, Open Daylight ,
> >>>>>>>>> OpenFlow are starting to gain importance. These new technologies
> >>>>>>>>> are designed for networks to be automatable and reconfigurable in
> >>>>>>>>> real time, which should eventually render traditional CCIEs less
> >>>>>>>>> useful. Depending on how much
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>> one's active career left, it's time to consider this change.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> You might argue our protocols might not change, but that might be
> >>>>>>>>> true
> >>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>> the near term (2-3 years). Just look around and see what Open
> >>>>>>>>> Networking standards and protocols have done in the last 2-3
> years
> >>>>>>>>> for Data
> >>>>>>> centers,
> >>>>>>>>> Enterprises, and Service Providers. Its time our CCIE training
> >>>>>>>>> partners re-brand themselves to this new wave.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Naveen.
> >>>>>>>>> CCIE25432.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 19, 2015, Narbik Kocharians <
> >>>>>>>>> narbik_at_micronicstraining.com>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Congratulations mate. Well done.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 4:41 AM, Radioactive Frog <
> >>>>>>> pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Chris,
> >>>>>>>>>>> I know where you are coming from. Most CCIE (not everyone)
> would
> >>>>>>>>> design,
> >>>>>>>>>>> production environment in the lab way!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I have seen them in real action where those lab engineer never
> >>>>>>>>>>> seen
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>> real
> >>>>>>>>>>> gear and don't know what really the RJ45 console vs DB9 pin
> >>>> looks
> >>>>>>>>> like.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> In my last role a newly minted out uni double CCIE asked me
> what
> >>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>> ATM.
> >>>>>>>>>> He
> >>>>>>>>>>> said "i know" but i wanted to confirm. I said what do u know
> >>>> then
> >>>>>>>>>>> he
> >>>>>>>>>> said -
> >>>>>>>>>>> Is it ATM machine where we withdraw money and that ATM
> connected
> >>>>>>>>>>> to ethernet interface. He was fresh from university with 2XCCIE
> >>>>>>>>> (RS/SEC). I
> >>>>>>>>>>> was like.... wtf. I jokingly said "yes' ATM is the WALL where
> >>>> you
> >>>>>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>> pull
> >>>>>>>>>>> money (but only $100 dollars notes).
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Shocking!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Chris Rae <
> chris.rae07_at_me.com
> >>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Quad CCIE is an awesome effort.....as long as you dont design
> >>>>>>>>>> production
> >>>>>>>>>>>> environments like the Lab then we are all fine! b :o8
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Chris
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18 Apr 2015, at 4:32 pm, Radioactive Frog <
> >>>>>>> pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gents,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, some good news...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My target is to stop studying by 2017. No more study
> >>>> afterward.
> >>>> http://bhatkoti.com/2015/04/16/another-quad-ccie-in-downunder/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Are 4xCCIE good enough? What are your thoughts?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -frog
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>> _____________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> __
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>> ___________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> ____
> >>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> *Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> >>>>>>>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> >>>>>>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
> >>>>>>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >>>>>>>>>> A Cisco Learning Partner
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>> _____________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> __
> >>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
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> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>> ___________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> ____ Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> *Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> >>>>>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> >>>>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
> >>>>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >>>>>>>> A Cisco Learning Partner
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>> _____________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> __ Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> >>>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> >>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
> >>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >>>>>> A Cisco Learning Partner
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>> ______________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>> _ Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---
> >>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>>> http://www.avast.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
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> >
> >
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> >
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>
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>
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-- 
Regards,
Joe Astorino
CCIE #24347
http://astorinonetworks.com
"He not busy being born is busy dying" - Dylan
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