Re: frog is quad ccie now - wtf?

Perfect. Well said.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 8:30 AM, Hubert Hinsley <hubert.hinsley_at_gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello Andrew,
>
> Please excuse my ignorance because I do not know who Wayne Gretsky is! :(
>
> To use a hockey, or sporting, analogy...I would suggest that as long as you
> are also a very good hockey player (read 'network engineer') then it does
> not matter where the puck is, has been, or is going to be...
> It doesn't even matter which position you might play in does it? Players
> often change position over the course of their careers don't they?
> What I mean to say is that as long as you invest in yourself and have good
> skills, I am sure you will be fine and have a fantastic career in this very
> interesting IT/Network world.
>
> With regards to where you want to go, I would suggest you should go with
> what interests you, purely based on the fact that if it interests you..you
> will probably find it much easier to learn?
>
> Like yourself, I have very little interest in Voice.
> I am interested in other technologies (RS and SP), and I am sure there is
> still enough scope in there to keep me busy for very many years, without
> having to worry myself silly (right now!) about SDN, DevOps, Scripting,
> Programming....or whatever the latest fashion happens to be...! ;0)
> I'm sure that I will probably have to learn these skills at some point but
> I would not consider them to be my 'core' skills as a network engineer.
> Those 'core' skills would have to be the protocols and the technologies...
>
> Consider this....If somebody makes a 'mother' of a mistake whilst
> configuring an Enterprise/SP network with the fancy new SDN tool of the
> day, is knowing SDN/DevOps/Scripting going to help you save your job?
> Or is it going to be whether you are able to pick your way through OSPF,
> BGP, MPLS..etc..etc...and solve that critical network problem that you -
> or, possibly your over-enthusiastic colleague - just created? ;0)
>
> At the end of the day this is about 'paying-the-rent' and
> 'putting-food-on-the-table' isn't it?
> As well as spending hours, weeks, months, years studying and taking exams
> of course, but that's the fun bit... ;0)
>
> I am sure that we all have our preferences but I'm guessing that the
> primary reason we do this is to be employed in a good role, in a good
> company, doing some interesting 'stuff' most of the time?
>
> For all of the effort and pain that we go through to reach our desired
> level of expertise, whatever that might be, I much prefer that particular
> option to the alternative "do you want fries with that?".... ;0)
>
> Therefore, work hard, be patient, be good at what you do, and the results
> and opportunities will appear and come your way for sure.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Best Regards, Hubert.
>
> On 20 April 2015 at 15:46, Andrew Podosenin <andrew.podosenin_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hubert,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the explanation. I remember the saying by hockey player Wane
> > Gretzky: b I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has
> > been.b So, I am trying to better understand where the puck is going in
> > networking world. Originally I thought it would be PfR, now I think it is
> > the SDN. My friends have successfully identified the explosion of VoIP
> and
> > multicast for high-frequency trading. Both are quite happy now. I am not
> > sure whatb s the next big one.
> >
> >
> >
> > As to the personal competencies, I have 5-6 years of networking
> > experience, CC[N,S,D,I]P, extensive Check Point and ISS, some Sonic Wall
> > and Netscreen. Have interest in SP stuff, hate voice, do not care for
> > storage or design, do not mind wireless and security. Went to the
> Triangle
> > several times. Last summer aced the troubleshooting but failed the build
> > (~60%). Have some formal education (PhD in comp chem. and MS in CS).
> >
> > Trying to better understand what should be added to my skill set. Most
> > importantly b I do not see where the puck is now going. If you have any
> > ideas on the subject b please share.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Hubert Hinsley <
> hubert.hinsley_at_gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hello Andrew,
> >> From what I see hear in the UK, as well as good all round Cisco R&S
> >> skills, a network engineer will certainly need to have knowledge of
> Nexus
> >> and Juniper.
> >> This is for what I would call layer-2/layer-3 "connectivity" skills and
> >> experience.
> >> Alternatively, for those roles with a security focus,
> ASA/CheckPoint/Palo
> >> Alto/Fortinet/Juniper is in demand.
> >> For those roles with a load-balancing focus then you should look at F5,
> >> NetScaler and ACE.
> >> For those roles with an SP focus, then definitely IOS-XR, Juniper Junos,
> >> and Alcatel exposure too.
> >> You will quite likely be asked to have a mix of all of the above, with
> >> maybe some skills being more important than the others depending on the
> >> specific role and situation.
> >> But I guess you cannot do the 'high-end' stuff unless you have a good
> >> understanding of the basics.
> >> So I would start from a Cisco R&S foundation, which I would consider to
> >> be pretty essential, and build from there, depending on what interests
> you.
> >> Obviously, your mileage may vary, depending on where you are. Hope this
> >> helps.
> >> Best Regards, Hubert.
> >>
> >> On 20 April 2015 at 13:33, Mark <infosecaz_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> if you have solid and genuine experience it s a worthwhile than crap
> ccie
> >>> 's , in the market for the last 10 years ccie lab exams are sold out
> >>> openly in the market , cisco is also aware about it they are playing
> all
> >>> dirty tricks to change the labs frequently and again sold in market big
> >>> money making business
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Andrew Podosenin <
> >>> andrew.podosenin_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Dear Experts,
> >>> >
> >>> > So, if you were to start your career today, what skills would you
> >>> sharpen
> >>> > besides passing CCIE R&S lab? Things that come to my mind are:
> >>> >
> >>> > Hands-on PfR, hands-on SDN, design to CCDP level, some IOS-XR, some
> >>> NX-OS,
> >>> > deeper knowledge of EEM, one scripting language (Perl or Python),
> >>> TRILL or
> >>> > equivalent.
> >>> >
> >>> > Did I miss much?
> >>> >
> >>> > Andrew
> >>> >
> >>> > P.S. I fully understand that extensive industry experience is
> >>> required, I
> >>> > am
> >>> > asking about the areas of concentration.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>> > From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> >>> Of
> >>> > gaston brait
> >>> > Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2015 5:53 PM
> >>> > To: Narbik Kocharians
> >>> > Cc: Naveen; Radioactive Frog; Chris Rae; Cisco certification
> >>> > Subject: Re: frog is quad ccie now - wtf?
> >>> >
> >>> > The programmability is only one side of what aci is trying to do.
> >>> > It is also a change on how we design networks, and most of our core
> >>> > networking skills will remain relevant ( ACI is an IS-IS underlay
> >>> fabric
> >>> > with vxlan as the overlay) MP-BGP is user to inject external routes.
> >>> All
> >>> > the
> >>> > programming you will do to enable the contracts so the epg can talk
> to
> >>> each
> >>> > other, will still be based on networking principles.
> >>> >
> >>> > I do see programming making it's way into part of the skillset that
> >>> will be
> >>> > needed, but no the core.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Sent from my iPhone
> >>> >
> >>> > > On Apr 19, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Narbik Kocharians
> >>> > <narbik_at_micronicstraining.com> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Do you know that there is a shortage of CCIEs in the world?
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Yes, I agree eventually things will evolve, but ACI will not take
> >>> over
> >>> > > such that your knowledge of R&S, Security, SP, Wireless, Storage
> and
> >>> > > etc etc will become obsolete. ACI will be another topic another
> >>> > > technology, another way of doing things. ACI is not for every
> >>> company.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > From time to time I work for Cisco, IBM, TTI, and train students
> from
> >>> > > Accenture, WWF and many more and I talk to them about their new
> >>> > > project, and I don't think that I am clueless.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Naveen <navin.ms_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Narbik - You misunderstood. My ccie was definitely useful until
> now,
> >>> > >> but don't think it will be valued the same going forward.. Neither
> >>> > >> Programming nor Networking is rocket science. Both needs good
> amount
> >>> > >> of dedication to be productive. Whether a programmer needs to be
> >>> > >> taught Networking or vice-versa is certainly a different topic and
> >>> > >> needs due discussion in another thread. I'll let folks decide and
> >>> choose
> >>> > for themselves.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Naveen.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> PS: For disclosure sake, I've done Programming, Networking and
> >>> worked
> >>> > >> for Cisco, Ericsson. Looking at present and whats coming in near
> >>> > >> future, I know what am talking about.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Narbik Kocharians <
> >>> > >> narbik_at_micronicstraining.com> wrote:
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>> So your knowledge of CCIE in any track is useless? Try to teach a
> >>> > >>> programmer networking.
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Naveen <navin.ms_at_gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Please allow me to say something here. Don't bet on CCIE alone.
> >>> > >> Networking
> >>> > >>>> Landscape has changed. The market is asking for more DevOps
> style
> >>> > >>>> work than traditional LAN/WAN admin style jobs.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Skills such as Python and REST APIs to control routers/switched,
> >>> > >>>> Application based Networking using Open Stack, Open Daylight ,
> >>> > >>>> OpenFlow are starting to gain importance. These new technologies
> >>> > >>>> are designed for networks to be automatable and reconfigurable
> in
> >>> > >>>> real time, which should eventually render traditional CCIEs less
> >>> > >>>> useful. Depending on how much
> >>> > >> of
> >>> > >>>> one's active career left, it's time to consider this change.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> You might argue our protocols might not change, but that might
> be
> >>> > >>>> true
> >>> > >> in
> >>> > >>>> the near term (2-3 years). Just look around and see what Open
> >>> > >>>> Networking standards and protocols have done in the last 2-3
> years
> >>> > >>>> for Data
> >>> > >> centers,
> >>> > >>>> Enterprises, and Service Providers. Its time our CCIE training
> >>> > >>>> partners re-brand themselves to this new wave.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Naveen.
> >>> > >>>> CCIE25432.
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> On Sunday, April 19, 2015, Narbik Kocharians <
> >>> > >>>> narbik_at_micronicstraining.com>
> >>> > >>>> wrote:
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>>> Congratulations mate. Well done.
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 4:41 AM, Radioactive Frog <
> >>> > >> pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com
> >>> > >>>>> <javascript:;>>
> >>> > >>>>> wrote:
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>> Hi Chris,
> >>> > >>>>>> I know where you are coming from. Most CCIE (not everyone)
> would
> >>> > >>>> design,
> >>> > >>>>>> production environment in the lab way!
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>> I have seen them in real action where those lab engineer never
> >>> > >>>>>> seen
> >>> > >> a
> >>> > >>>>> real
> >>> > >>>>>> gear and don't know what really the RJ45 console vs DB9 pin
> >>> looks
> >>> > >>>> like.
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>> In my last role a newly minted out uni double CCIE asked me
> what
> >>> > >>>>>> is
> >>> > >>>> ATM.
> >>> > >>>>> He
> >>> > >>>>>> said "i know" but i wanted to confirm. I said what do u know
> >>> then
> >>> > >>>>>> he
> >>> > >>>>> said -
> >>> > >>>>>> Is it ATM machine where we withdraw money and that ATM
> connected
> >>> > >>>>>> to ethernet interface. He was fresh from university with
> 2XCCIE
> >>> > >>>> (RS/SEC). I
> >>> > >>>>>> was like.... wtf. I jokingly said "yes' ATM is the WALL where
> >>> you
> >>> > >>>>>> go
> >>> > >>>> pull
> >>> > >>>>>> money (but only $100 dollars notes).
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>> Shocking!
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Chris Rae <
> chris.rae07_at_me.com
> >>> > >>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>> Quad CCIE is an awesome effort.....as long as you dont design
> >>> > >>>>> production
> >>> > >>>>>>> environments like the Lab then we are all fine! b :o8
> >>> > >>>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>> Chris
> >>> > >>>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>>> On 18 Apr 2015, at 4:32 pm, Radioactive Frog <
> >>> > >> pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com
> >>> > >>>>> <javascript:;>>
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>> > >>>>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>>> Gents,
> >>> > >>>>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>>> Finally, some good news...
> >>> > >>>>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>>> My target is to stop studying by 2017. No more study
> >>> afterward.
> >>> > >>>>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>>>
> >>> http://bhatkoti.com/2015/04/16/another-quad-ccie-in-downunder/
> >>> > >>>>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>>> Are 4xCCIE good enough? What are your thoughts?
> >>> > >>>>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>>> -frog
> >>> > >>>>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>> > >>
> >>> _____________________________________________________________________
> >>> > >> __
> >>> > >>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>> > >>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> ___________________________________________________________________
> >>> > >>>> ____
> >>> > >>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>> > >>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>> --
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>> *Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> >>> > >>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/
> >
> >>> > >>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
> >>> > >>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >>> > >>>>> A Cisco Learning Partner
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>> > >>
> >>> _____________________________________________________________________
> >>> > >> __
> >>> > >>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>> > >>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>>>
> >>> ___________________________________________________________________
> >>> > >>>> ____ Subscription information may be found at:
> >>> > >>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> --
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> *Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> >>> > >>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> >>> > >>> Sr. Technical Instructor
> >>> > >>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >>> > >>> A Cisco Learning Partner
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> >>> _____________________________________________________________________
> >>> > >> __ Subscription information may be found at:
> >>> > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > --
> >>> > >
> >>> > > *Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> >>> > > *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> >>> > > Sr. Technical Instructor
> >>> > > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >>> > > A Cisco Learning Partner
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> ______________________________________________________________________
> >>> > > _ Subscription information may be found at:
> >>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>> >
> >>> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>> > Subscription information may be found at:
> >>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > ---
> >>> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>> > http://www.avast.com
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>> >
> >>> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>> > Subscription information may be found at:
> >>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
*Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
*www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
Sr. Technical Instructor
YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
A Cisco Learning Partner
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net