Re: frog is quad ccie now - wtf?

Hello Andrew,

Please excuse my ignorance because I do not know who Wayne Gretsky is! :(

To use a hockey, or sporting, analogy...I would suggest that as long as you
are also a very good hockey player (read 'network engineer') then it does
not matter where the puck is, has been, or is going to be...
It doesn't even matter which position you might play in does it? Players
often change position over the course of their careers don't they?
What I mean to say is that as long as you invest in yourself and have good
skills, I am sure you will be fine and have a fantastic career in this very
interesting IT/Network world.

With regards to where you want to go, I would suggest you should go with
what interests you, purely based on the fact that if it interests you..you
will probably find it much easier to learn?

Like yourself, I have very little interest in Voice.
I am interested in other technologies (RS and SP), and I am sure there is
still enough scope in there to keep me busy for very many years, without
having to worry myself silly (right now!) about SDN, DevOps, Scripting,
Programming....or whatever the latest fashion happens to be...! ;0)
I'm sure that I will probably have to learn these skills at some point but
I would not consider them to be my 'core' skills as a network engineer.
Those 'core' skills would have to be the protocols and the technologies...

Consider this....If somebody makes a 'mother' of a mistake whilst
configuring an Enterprise/SP network with the fancy new SDN tool of the
day, is knowing SDN/DevOps/Scripting going to help you save your job?
Or is it going to be whether you are able to pick your way through OSPF,
BGP, MPLS..etc..etc...and solve that critical network problem that you -
or, possibly your over-enthusiastic colleague - just created? ;0)

At the end of the day this is about 'paying-the-rent' and
'putting-food-on-the-table' isn't it?
As well as spending hours, weeks, months, years studying and taking exams
of course, but that's the fun bit... ;0)

I am sure that we all have our preferences but I'm guessing that the
primary reason we do this is to be employed in a good role, in a good
company, doing some interesting 'stuff' most of the time?

For all of the effort and pain that we go through to reach our desired
level of expertise, whatever that might be, I much prefer that particular
option to the alternative "do you want fries with that?".... ;0)

Therefore, work hard, be patient, be good at what you do, and the results
and opportunities will appear and come your way for sure.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards, Hubert.

On 20 April 2015 at 15:46, Andrew Podosenin <andrew.podosenin_at_gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hubert,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the explanation. I remember the saying by hockey player Wane
> Gretzky: bI skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has
> been.b So, I am trying to better understand where the puck is going in
> networking world. Originally I thought it would be PfR, now I think it is
> the SDN. My friends have successfully identified the explosion of VoIP and
> multicast for high-frequency trading. Both are quite happy now. I am not
> sure whatbs the next big one.
>
>
>
> As to the personal competencies, I have 5-6 years of networking
> experience, CC[N,S,D,I]P, extensive Check Point and ISS, some Sonic Wall
> and Netscreen. Have interest in SP stuff, hate voice, do not care for
> storage or design, do not mind wireless and security. Went to the Triangle
> several times. Last summer aced the troubleshooting but failed the build
> (~60%). Have some formal education (PhD in comp chem. and MS in CS).
>
> Trying to better understand what should be added to my skill set. Most
> importantly b I do not see where the puck is now going. If you have any
> ideas on the subject b please share.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Hubert Hinsley <hubert.hinsley_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Andrew,
>> From what I see hear in the UK, as well as good all round Cisco R&S
>> skills, a network engineer will certainly need to have knowledge of Nexus
>> and Juniper.
>> This is for what I would call layer-2/layer-3 "connectivity" skills and
>> experience.
>> Alternatively, for those roles with a security focus, ASA/CheckPoint/Palo
>> Alto/Fortinet/Juniper is in demand.
>> For those roles with a load-balancing focus then you should look at F5,
>> NetScaler and ACE.
>> For those roles with an SP focus, then definitely IOS-XR, Juniper Junos,
>> and Alcatel exposure too.
>> You will quite likely be asked to have a mix of all of the above, with
>> maybe some skills being more important than the others depending on the
>> specific role and situation.
>> But I guess you cannot do the 'high-end' stuff unless you have a good
>> understanding of the basics.
>> So I would start from a Cisco R&S foundation, which I would consider to
>> be pretty essential, and build from there, depending on what interests
you.
>> Obviously, your mileage may vary, depending on where you are. Hope this
>> helps.
>> Best Regards, Hubert.
>>
>> On 20 April 2015 at 13:33, Mark <infosecaz_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> if you have solid and genuine experience it s a worthwhile than crap ccie
>>> 's , in the market for the last 10 years ccie lab exams are sold out
>>> openly in the market , cisco is also aware about it they are playing all
>>> dirty tricks to change the labs frequently and again sold in market big
>>> money making business
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Andrew Podosenin <
>>> andrew.podosenin_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Dear Experts,
>>> >
>>> > So, if you were to start your career today, what skills would you
>>> sharpen
>>> > besides passing CCIE R&S lab? Things that come to my mind are:
>>> >
>>> > Hands-on PfR, hands-on SDN, design to CCDP level, some IOS-XR, some
>>> NX-OS,
>>> > deeper knowledge of EEM, one scripting language (Perl or Python),
>>> TRILL or
>>> > equivalent.
>>> >
>>> > Did I miss much?
>>> >
>>> > Andrew
>>> >
>>> > P.S. I fully understand that extensive industry experience is
>>> required, I
>>> > am
>>> > asking about the areas of concentration.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>> > gaston brait
>>> > Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2015 5:53 PM
>>> > To: Narbik Kocharians
>>> > Cc: Naveen; Radioactive Frog; Chris Rae; Cisco certification
>>> > Subject: Re: frog is quad ccie now - wtf?
>>> >
>>> > The programmability is only one side of what aci is trying to do.
>>> > It is also a change on how we design networks, and most of our core
>>> > networking skills will remain relevant ( ACI is an IS-IS underlay
>>> fabric
>>> > with vxlan as the overlay) MP-BGP is user to inject external routes.
>>> All
>>> > the
>>> > programming you will do to enable the contracts so the epg can talk to
>>> each
>>> > other, will still be based on networking principles.
>>> >
>>> > I do see programming making it's way into part of the skillset that
>>> will be
>>> > needed, but no the core.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > > On Apr 19, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Narbik Kocharians
>>> > <narbik_at_micronicstraining.com> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Do you know that there is a shortage of CCIEs in the world?
>>> > >
>>> > > Yes, I agree eventually things will evolve, but ACI will not take
>>> over
>>> > > such that your knowledge of R&S, Security, SP, Wireless, Storage and
>>> > > etc etc will become obsolete. ACI will be another topic another
>>> > > technology, another way of doing things. ACI is not for every
>>> company.
>>> > >
>>> > > From time to time I work for Cisco, IBM, TTI, and train students from
>>> > > Accenture, WWF and many more and I talk to them about their new
>>> > > project, and I don't think that I am clueless.
>>> > >
>>> > >> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Naveen <navin.ms_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Narbik - You misunderstood. My ccie was definitely useful until now,
>>> > >> but don't think it will be valued the same going forward.. Neither
>>> > >> Programming nor Networking is rocket science. Both needs good amount
>>> > >> of dedication to be productive. Whether a programmer needs to be
>>> > >> taught Networking or vice-versa is certainly a different topic and
>>> > >> needs due discussion in another thread. I'll let folks decide and
>>> choose
>>> > for themselves.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Naveen.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> PS: For disclosure sake, I've done Programming, Networking and
>>> worked
>>> > >> for Cisco, Ericsson. Looking at present and whats coming in near
>>> > >> future, I know what am talking about.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Narbik Kocharians <
>>> > >> narbik_at_micronicstraining.com> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> So your knowledge of CCIE in any track is useless? Try to teach a
>>> > >>> programmer networking.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Naveen <navin.ms_at_gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> Please allow me to say something here. Don't bet on CCIE alone.
>>> > >> Networking
>>> > >>>> Landscape has changed. The market is asking for more DevOps style
>>> > >>>> work than traditional LAN/WAN admin style jobs.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> Skills such as Python and REST APIs to control routers/switched,
>>> > >>>> Application based Networking using Open Stack, Open Daylight ,
>>> > >>>> OpenFlow are starting to gain importance. These new technologies
>>> > >>>> are designed for networks to be automatable and reconfigurable in
>>> > >>>> real time, which should eventually render traditional CCIEs less
>>> > >>>> useful. Depending on how much
>>> > >> of
>>> > >>>> one's active career left, it's time to consider this change.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> You might argue our protocols might not change, but that might be
>>> > >>>> true
>>> > >> in
>>> > >>>> the near term (2-3 years). Just look around and see what Open
>>> > >>>> Networking standards and protocols have done in the last 2-3 years
>>> > >>>> for Data
>>> > >> centers,
>>> > >>>> Enterprises, and Service Providers. Its time our CCIE training
>>> > >>>> partners re-brand themselves to this new wave.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> Naveen.
>>> > >>>> CCIE25432.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> On Sunday, April 19, 2015, Narbik Kocharians <
>>> > >>>> narbik_at_micronicstraining.com>
>>> > >>>> wrote:
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>> Congratulations mate. Well done.
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 4:41 AM, Radioactive Frog <
>>> > >> pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com
>>> > >>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>> > >>>>> wrote:
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>> Hi Chris,
>>> > >>>>>> I know where you are coming from. Most CCIE (not everyone) would
>>> > >>>> design,
>>> > >>>>>> production environment in the lab way!
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>> I have seen them in real action where those lab engineer never
>>> > >>>>>> seen
>>> > >> a
>>> > >>>>> real
>>> > >>>>>> gear and don't know what really the RJ45 console vs DB9 pin
>>> looks
>>> > >>>> like.
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>> In my last role a newly minted out uni double CCIE asked me what
>>> > >>>>>> is
>>> > >>>> ATM.
>>> > >>>>> He
>>> > >>>>>> said "i know" but i wanted to confirm. I said what do u know
>>> then
>>> > >>>>>> he
>>> > >>>>> said -
>>> > >>>>>> Is it ATM machine where we withdraw money and that ATM connected
>>> > >>>>>> to ethernet interface. He was fresh from university with 2XCCIE
>>> > >>>> (RS/SEC). I
>>> > >>>>>> was like.... wtf. I jokingly said "yes' ATM is the WALL where
>>> you
>>> > >>>>>> go
>>> > >>>> pull
>>> > >>>>>> money (but only $100 dollars notes).
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>> Shocking!
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Chris Rae <chris.rae07_at_me.com
>>> > >>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> Quad CCIE is an awesome effort.....as long as you dont design
>>> > >>>>> production
>>> > >>>>>>> environments like the Lab then we are all fine! b :o8
>>> > >>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> Chris
>>> > >>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>> On 18 Apr 2015, at 4:32 pm, Radioactive Frog <
>>> > >> pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com
>>> > >>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>>>> wrote:
>>> > >>>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>> Gents,
>>> > >>>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>> Finally, some good news...
>>> > >>>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>> My target is to stop studying by 2017. No more study
>>> afterward.
>>> > >>>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>>
>>> http://bhatkoti.com/2015/04/16/another-quad-ccie-in-downunder/
>>> > >>>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>> Are 4xCCIE good enough? What are your thoughts?
>>> > >>>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>> -frog
>>> > >>>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> > >>
>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>> > >> __
>>> > >>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > >>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> > >>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________________
>>> > >>>> ____
>>> > >>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > >>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>> --
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>> *Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>> > >>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>> > >>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>> > >>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>> > >>>>> A Cisco Learning Partner
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> > >>
>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>> > >> __
>>> > >>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > >>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________________
>>> > >>>> ____ Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > >>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> --
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> *Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>> > >>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>> > >>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>> > >>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>> > >>> A Cisco Learning Partner
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>> > >> __ Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > >
>>> > > *Narbik Kocharians*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>> > > *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>> > > Sr. Technical Instructor
>>> > > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>> > > A Cisco Learning Partner
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>> > > _ Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ---
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> >
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
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Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Mon Apr 20 2015 - 16:30:04 ART