Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?

lol @ understanding the tech.... aawww showing some passion there!!!

no, at the end of the day it is about making a living....that's all. R/S,
SDN, et. etc. who cares?

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Manouchehr Omari
<manouchehr1979_at_gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
> at the end of the day it is not about passing ccie, it is about
> understanding the tech.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 1:38 PM, sameer khan <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Good to know none of you people think SDN will change anything. on a side
>> note i guess knowledge of ping is not required to pass ccie :D and to my
>> experience server side guys only have one solution restart windows, restart
>> computer or restart .* :D
>>
>>
>> > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 09:46:08 +0200
>>
>> > Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
>> > From: manouchehr1979_at_gmail.com
>> > To: joe_at_affirmedsystems.com
>> > CC: narbikk_at_gmail.com; itguy.pro_at_gmail.com; william.mccall_at_gmail.com;
>> jneiberger_at_gmail.com; marcabel_at_gmail.com; m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com;
>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com; khanzadap_at_hotmail.com; jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com
>>
>> >
>> > Hahahaha. I did interview server guys. I asked one how ping works. he
>> was
>> > like
>> >
>> > you go to run and type ping 192.168.0.1 and hit enter, after few seconds
>> > the window disappears. lol.
>> >
>> > Also I have noticed one thing with server guys, they are only familiar
>> with
>> > class C address (192.168.0.0/24) :))
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Joseph L. Brunner
>> > <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>wrote:
>> >
>> > > True...
>> > >
>> > > I stopped asking that one years ago - as I was told weird stuff - I
>> almost
>> > > wanted to break out a hub and wireshark during the interview and put
>> my
>> > > laptop, a linux server running "traceroute", a windows machine running
>> > > "tracert" and a cisco router running "traceroute" on that hub to show
>> them
>> > > how
>> > > off they were...
>> > >
>> > > Alas,
>> > >
>> > > Ever interview windows server guys? Those are even more fun :)
>> > >
>> > > SDN wont magically make everyone serious - if anything - it will make
>> > > people
>> > > less serious...
>> > >
>> > > So, to clearly flex your mind and get serious - do the CCIE R/S :)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Narbik Kocharians [mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com]
>> > > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:24 PM
>> > > To: Haroon
>> > > Cc: William McCall; John Neiberger; marc abel; Joseph L. Brunner;
>> Mohamed
>> > > A.
>> > > Monsef Abbas; Cisco certification; sameer khan; Jay McMickle
>> > > Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
>> > >
>> > > I know one that didn't even know what Ping was............hahahaha
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Haroon
>> > > <itguy.pro_at_gmail.com<mailto:itguy.pro_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > > dhcp is pretty tough one.... a lot of them don't know what port PING
>> > > operates on or difference between Linux/windows traceroute at the
>> protocol
>> > > level!!!
>> > >
>> > > anyway, world moving to SDN is like the world moved from manual cars
>> to
>> > > automatic and soon to robot cars.... is the mechanic still around or
>> no?
>> > > Yes. So, don't let stuff like SDN, CDN mess up with your goals...
>> keep up
>> > > with the technology that's all.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 2:24 PM, William McCall
>> > > <william.mccall_at_gmail.com<mailto:william.mccall_at_gmail.com>>wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Can I admit I never bothered remembering DHCP much past the exams?
>> > > >
>> > > > Now that y'all gave an easy mnemonic, I guess I better.
>> > > >
>> > > > --WM
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On 07/08/2013 01:00 PM, John Neiberger wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> I know about Dora the Explorer, so....I'll work for $150k. :-)
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 11:50 AM, marc abel
>> > > <marcabel_at_gmail.com<mailto:marcabel_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I know about DORA, want to pay me $200k ;)
>> > > >>> On Jul 7, 2013 1:47 PM, "Joseph L. Brunner"
>> > > <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com<mailto:joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>>
>> > > >>> wrote:
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> The same 99% of SDN engineers will know little to nothing - like
>> R/S
>> > > >>>> engineers do now...
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Recall (and I posted it here a few times) we asked 50 (FIFTY)
>> CCIE or
>> > > >>>> senior level engineers for a job interview we conducted for a
>> client
>> > > to
>> > > >>>> "describe dhcp" and how it works.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> NONE knew DORA... HOLY COW
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Never expected that... the offering salary was around $200k.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Sad. Very sad.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> > > >>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
>> > > [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>] On
>> Behalf Of
>> > > >>>> Jay McMickle
>> > > >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 12:25 PM
>> > > >>>> To: marc abel
>> > > >>>> Cc: sameer khan; Mohamed A. Monsef Abbas; groupstudy
>> > > >>>> Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> LOL. Same here!
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Regards,
>> > > >>>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE #35355 (R/S,Sec)
>> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone 5
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> On Jul 7, 2013, at 11:20 AM, marc abel
>> > > <marcabel_at_gmail.com<mailto:marcabel_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Ha!
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> We will see. Finishing my VCP at the moment. Looking to start
>> either
>> > > >>>>> the
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>> security, data center, or CCDE next year. Still on the fence as
>> to
>> > > which
>> > > >>>> way to go.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> -Marc
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Jay McMickle
>> > > <jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com<mailto:jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com>>
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>> wrote:
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> Agreed.
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> PS- that brings us to the point- where is your 2nd IE, Marc? ;)
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> Regards,
>> > > >>>>>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE #35355 (R/S,Sec) Sent from my iPhone 5
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:30 AM, marc abel
>> > > <marcabel_at_gmail.com<mailto:marcabel_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> If you are afraid of change of technology go into accounting.
>> That
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> hasn't
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> changed much in the last 30 years. I started as Novell Netware
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> certified.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> Want to guess when the last time I touched IPX/SPX protocol? You
>> > > >>>>>>> see
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> the
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> change, you adapt. Often change in technology brings opportunity
>> > > >>>>>>> because not everyone knows the new stuff yet.
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> The CCIE was never an end point anyway. Once you earn the CCIE
>> > > >>>>>>> route and switch then everyone expects you to be an expert on
>> > > >>>>>>> wireless, or voice,
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> or
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> some other technology as well. Keep learning or wither and die
>> in
>> > > >>>>>>> this business.
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> -Marc
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Jay McMickle
>> > > >>>>>>> <jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com<mailto:jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com>>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> wrote:
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> Being a CCIE and configuring something directly on the device is
>> > > >>>>>>>> only a small part of the game.
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> Think of SDN a wireless controller and AP type relationship.
>> You
>> > > >>>>>>>> don't get upset that you don't have to configure
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> every
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> AP
>> > > >>>>>>>> (autonomously) do you? You enjoy the centralized
>> configuration.
>> > > >>>>>>>> Think
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> of
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> this as being a method of making your job easier/centralized,
>> not
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> taking
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> aware
>> > > >>>>>>>> of your elite certification. Today's form of SDN is still
>> > > >>>>>>>> premature,
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> but I
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> tell you this- all big player manufacturers are moving this way.
>> > > >>>>>>>> So,
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> you
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> can
>> > > >>>>>>>> switch brands, but you'll run into the same issue with each
>> one.
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> If SDN
>> > > >>>>>>>> moves you away from seeking the CCIE, then maybe your goals
>> are
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> misaligned.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> Technology is moving forward, with or without us. Fight it, and
>> > > >>>>>>>> stand alone.
>> > > >>>>>>>> Embrace it, and become the best at it.
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> Continue your studies and stay up
>> > > >>>>>>>> with technology. That's my advice.
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> Cheers.
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> Regards,
>> > > >>>>>>>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE
>> > > >>>>>>>> #35355 (R&S,Sec)
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> ______________________________**__
>> > > >>>>>>>> From: sameer khan
>> > > >>>>>>>> <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com<mailto:khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> To: Mohamed A. Monsef Abbas
>> > > <m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com<mailto:m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> Cc: groupstudy
>> > > <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 1:51 AM
>> > > >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> Monsef thanks
>> > > >>>>>>>> for replying, i really understand that Cisco program manager
>> must
>> > > >>>>>>>> have thought of something but let me take a flashback and
>> try to
>> > > >>>>>>>> explain where i am coming from, not too far back Microsoft
>> dumped
>> > > >>>>>>>> dos, with windows 95. With windows 95 the GUI eliminated the
>> > > >>>>>>>> need of commands that were used for operation as simple as
>> copying
>> > > >>>>>>>> a file. The companies are there for one sole purpose that is
>> to
>> > > >>>>>>>> make money, so they will dump anything in return of more
>> profits.
>> > > >>>>>>>> To best
>> > > >>>>>>>> of my understanding humans tend to follow the ease over
>> hardship,
>> > > >>>>>>>> and follow hardship in sight of return. As for networks,
>> CCIEs are
>> > > >>>>>>>> there to handle control plane and with SDN that control
>> plane is
>> > > >>>>>>>> being shifted ( that
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> is
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> unclear to me where at the moment) to something alike GUI or
>> > > >>>>>>>> scripts or maybe both.
>> > > >>>>>>>> I as a network engineer must understand the fundamental but
>> will
>> > > >>>>>>>> it makes sense to understand them to this scary amount of
>> depth
>> > > >>>>>>>> that CCIE goes into and also any one who i think is
>> preparing for
>> > > >>>>>>>> the lab exam will have solid foundation of the protocol but
>> when
>> > > >>>>>>>> proving it in the lab does that
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> make
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> sense
>> > > >>>>>>>> and worth going for with SDN in perspective. CCIE is a number
>> > > >>>>>>>> that is
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> a
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> proof
>> > > >>>>>>>> of your understanding but will that proof be worthy and
>> required
>> > > >>>>>>>> in the first place ?
>> > > >>>>>>>> i hope i made sense of my confusion :)
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 7 Jul
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> 2013 08:16:15 +0200
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> ?
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> From: m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com<mailto:
>> m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> To: khanzadap_at_hotmail.com<mailto:khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> CC:
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> I wounder The GUI is created by engineers and you
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> are engineer how can you
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> create the click to do the action and how can you
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> click on this and
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> understand the action happens behind the seen are you a
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> help desk or
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> network engineer ?! again don't think that Cisco program
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> managers are
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> stupid to make the CCIE on of the Cisco programs that
>> became a
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> reference
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> for understanding the technology and one of the Business
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> certificates that
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> make a Cisco market big will be dead due to another
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> product specially the
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> product is summarizing the command line again the GUI
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> wont be as easy like
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> the the command line, that's my own opinion and what I
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> see inside this
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> business while working in this field.
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> Monsef
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 7:45 AM, sameer khan
>> > > >>>>>>>>> <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com<mailto:khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> Hello guys,
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>> I am in pursuit of my CCIE R&S but now and
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> then i am hearing about sdn or
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> openflow that crushes my motivation and
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> stops me for moving forward, as
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> what i
>> > > >>>>>>>>>> seem to perceive is that some
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> point in future, i am not saying tomorrow or
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> any
>> > > >>>>>>>>>> time soon, the
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> commands and protocols that i am trying so hard to learn,
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> understand and
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> memorize will be transformed into mouse clicks and with
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> fancy
>> > > >>>>>>>>>> GUI that
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> can make all the task easier but at the same time will make
>> CCIE
>> > > a
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> thing
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> of the past.
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> I don't know if my assumption are any right but i am really
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> really
>> > > >>>>>>>> confused
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> should i continue with CCIE R&S or take up programming and
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> VMware stuff (
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> though i already consider myself a decent programmer) ?
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> I would be grateful if any one can be please help me out
>> clear
>> > > the
>> > > >>>>>>>> this confusion.
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at
>> > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> http://www.ccie.net/
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> ______________________________**______________________________**
>> > > >>>>>>>> ______
>> > > >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
>> > > CCIELab.html>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at
>> > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> http://www.ccie.net/
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> ______________________________**______________________________**
>> > > >>>>>>>> ______
>> > > >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
>> > > CCIELab.html>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at
>> > > >>>>>>>> http://www.ccie.net/
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> ______________________________**______________________________**
>> > > >>>>>>>> ______
>> > > >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
>> > > CCIELab.html>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> ______________________________**______________________________**
>> > > >>>>>>>> ______
>> > > >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
>> > > CCIELab.html>
>> > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> --
>> > > >>>>>>> Marc Abel
>> > > >>>>>>> CCIE #35470
>> > > >>>>>>> (Routing and Switching)
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> ______________________________**______________________________**
>> > > >>>>>>> _______
>> > > >>>>>>> ____ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
>> > > CCIELab.html>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> --
>> > > >>>>> Marc Abel
>> > > >>>>> CCIE #35470
>> > > >>>>> (Routing and Switching)
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> ______________________________**______________________________**
>> > > >>>> ___________
>> > > >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > >>>>
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>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
>> > > CCIELab.html>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>
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>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> ______________________________**______________________________**
>> > > >>> ___________
>> > > >>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > >>>
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>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
>> > > CCIELab.html>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> > > >>
>> > > >> ______________________________**______________________________**
>> > > >> ___________
>> > > >> Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > >>
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>> > > CCIELab.html>
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> > > >
>> > > > ______________________________**______________________________**
>> > > > ___________
>> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/**
>> > > > list/CCIELab.html <http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
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>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Narbik Kocharians
>> > > CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>> > > www.MicronicsTraining.com<http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>> > > Sr. Technical Instructor
>> > > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>> > > A Cisco Learning Partner
>> > >
>> > >
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>> > >
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>>
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