Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?

at the end of the day it is not about passing ccie, it is about
understanding the tech.

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 1:38 PM, sameer khan <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com> wrote:

> Good to know none of you people think SDN will change anything. on a side
> note i guess knowledge of ping is not required to pass ccie :D and to my
> experience server side guys only have one solution restart windows, restart
> computer or restart .* :D
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 09:46:08 +0200
>
> > Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
> > From: manouchehr1979_at_gmail.com
> > To: joe_at_affirmedsystems.com
> > CC: narbikk_at_gmail.com; itguy.pro_at_gmail.com; william.mccall_at_gmail.com;
> jneiberger_at_gmail.com; marcabel_at_gmail.com; m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com;
> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com; khanzadap_at_hotmail.com; jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com
>
> >
> > Hahahaha. I did interview server guys. I asked one how ping works. he was
> > like
> >
> > you go to run and type ping 192.168.0.1 and hit enter, after few seconds
> > the window disappears. lol.
> >
> > Also I have noticed one thing with server guys, they are only familiar
> with
> > class C address (192.168.0.0/24) :))
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Joseph L. Brunner
> > <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>wrote:
> >
> > > True...
> > >
> > > I stopped asking that one years ago - as I was told weird stuff - I
> almost
> > > wanted to break out a hub and wireshark during the interview and put my
> > > laptop, a linux server running "traceroute", a windows machine running
> > > "tracert" and a cisco router running "traceroute" on that hub to show
> them
> > > how
> > > off they were...
> > >
> > > Alas,
> > >
> > > Ever interview windows server guys? Those are even more fun :)
> > >
> > > SDN wont magically make everyone serious - if anything - it will make
> > > people
> > > less serious...
> > >
> > > So, to clearly flex your mind and get serious - do the CCIE R/S :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Narbik Kocharians [mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:24 PM
> > > To: Haroon
> > > Cc: William McCall; John Neiberger; marc abel; Joseph L. Brunner;
> Mohamed
> > > A.
> > > Monsef Abbas; Cisco certification; sameer khan; Jay McMickle
> > > Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
> > >
> > > I know one that didn't even know what Ping was............hahahaha
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Haroon
> > > <itguy.pro_at_gmail.com<mailto:itguy.pro_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > dhcp is pretty tough one.... a lot of them don't know what port PING
> > > operates on or difference between Linux/windows traceroute at the
> protocol
> > > level!!!
> > >
> > > anyway, world moving to SDN is like the world moved from manual cars to
> > > automatic and soon to robot cars.... is the mechanic still around or
> no?
> > > Yes. So, don't let stuff like SDN, CDN mess up with your goals... keep
> up
> > > with the technology that's all.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 2:24 PM, William McCall
> > > <william.mccall_at_gmail.com<mailto:william.mccall_at_gmail.com>>wrote:
> > >
> > > > Can I admit I never bothered remembering DHCP much past the exams?
> > > >
> > > > Now that y'all gave an easy mnemonic, I guess I better.
> > > >
> > > > --WM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 07/08/2013 01:00 PM, John Neiberger wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I know about Dora the Explorer, so....I'll work for $150k. :-)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 11:50 AM, marc abel
> > > <marcabel_at_gmail.com<mailto:marcabel_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I know about DORA, want to pay me $200k ;)
> > > >>> On Jul 7, 2013 1:47 PM, "Joseph L. Brunner"
> > > <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com<mailto:joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The same 99% of SDN engineers will know little to nothing - like
> R/S
> > > >>>> engineers do now...
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Recall (and I posted it here a few times) we asked 50 (FIFTY)
> CCIE or
> > > >>>> senior level engineers for a job interview we conducted for a
> client
> > > to
> > > >>>> "describe dhcp" and how it works.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> NONE knew DORA... HOLY COW
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Never expected that... the offering salary was around $200k.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Sad. Very sad.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
> > > [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>] On
> Behalf Of
> > > >>>> Jay McMickle
> > > >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 12:25 PM
> > > >>>> To: marc abel
> > > >>>> Cc: sameer khan; Mohamed A. Monsef Abbas; groupstudy
> > > >>>> Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> LOL. Same here!
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Regards,
> > > >>>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE #35355 (R/S,Sec)
> > > >>>> Sent from my iPhone 5
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Jul 7, 2013, at 11:20 AM, marc abel
> > > <marcabel_at_gmail.com<mailto:marcabel_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Ha!
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> We will see. Finishing my VCP at the moment. Looking to start
> either
> > > >>>>> the
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> security, data center, or CCDE next year. Still on the fence as to
> > > which
> > > >>>> way to go.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> -Marc
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Jay McMickle
> > > <jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com<mailto:jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Agreed.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> PS- that brings us to the point- where is your 2nd IE, Marc? ;)
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Regards,
> > > >>>>>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE #35355 (R/S,Sec) Sent from my iPhone 5
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:30 AM, marc abel
> > > <marcabel_at_gmail.com<mailto:marcabel_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> If you are afraid of change of technology go into accounting.
> That
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> hasn't
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> changed much in the last 30 years. I started as Novell Netware
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> certified.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Want to guess when the last time I touched IPX/SPX protocol? You
> > > >>>>>>> see
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> the
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> change, you adapt. Often change in technology brings opportunity
> > > >>>>>>> because not everyone knows the new stuff yet.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> The CCIE was never an end point anyway. Once you earn the CCIE
> > > >>>>>>> route and switch then everyone expects you to be an expert on
> > > >>>>>>> wireless, or voice,
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> or
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> some other technology as well. Keep learning or wither and die in
> > > >>>>>>> this business.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> -Marc
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Jay McMickle
> > > >>>>>>> <jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com<mailto:jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Being a CCIE and configuring something directly on the device is
> > > >>>>>>>> only a small part of the game.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Think of SDN a wireless controller and AP type relationship.
> You
> > > >>>>>>>> don't get upset that you don't have to configure
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> every
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> AP
> > > >>>>>>>> (autonomously) do you? You enjoy the centralized
> configuration.
> > > >>>>>>>> Think
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> of
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> this as being a method of making your job easier/centralized, not
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> taking
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> aware
> > > >>>>>>>> of your elite certification. Today's form of SDN is still
> > > >>>>>>>> premature,
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> but I
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> tell you this- all big player manufacturers are moving this way.
> > > >>>>>>>> So,
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> you
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> can
> > > >>>>>>>> switch brands, but you'll run into the same issue with each
> one.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> If SDN
> > > >>>>>>>> moves you away from seeking the CCIE, then maybe your goals
> are
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> misaligned.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Technology is moving forward, with or without us. Fight it, and
> > > >>>>>>>> stand alone.
> > > >>>>>>>> Embrace it, and become the best at it.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Continue your studies and stay up
> > > >>>>>>>> with technology. That's my advice.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Cheers.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Regards,
> > > >>>>>>>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE
> > > >>>>>>>> #35355 (R&S,Sec)
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> ______________________________**__
> > > >>>>>>>> From: sameer khan
> > > >>>>>>>> <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com<mailto:khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>>
> > > >>>>>>>> To: Mohamed A. Monsef Abbas
> > > <m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com<mailto:m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Cc: groupstudy
> > > <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 1:51 AM
> > > >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Monsef thanks
> > > >>>>>>>> for replying, i really understand that Cisco program manager
> must
> > > >>>>>>>> have thought of something but let me take a flashback and try
> to
> > > >>>>>>>> explain where i am coming from, not too far back Microsoft
> dumped
> > > >>>>>>>> dos, with windows 95. With windows 95 the GUI eliminated the
> > > >>>>>>>> need of commands that were used for operation as simple as
> copying
> > > >>>>>>>> a file. The companies are there for one sole purpose that is
> to
> > > >>>>>>>> make money, so they will dump anything in return of more
> profits.
> > > >>>>>>>> To best
> > > >>>>>>>> of my understanding humans tend to follow the ease over
> hardship,
> > > >>>>>>>> and follow hardship in sight of return. As for networks,
> CCIEs are
> > > >>>>>>>> there to handle control plane and with SDN that control plane
> is
> > > >>>>>>>> being shifted ( that
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> is
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> unclear to me where at the moment) to something alike GUI or
> > > >>>>>>>> scripts or maybe both.
> > > >>>>>>>> I as a network engineer must understand the fundamental but
> will
> > > >>>>>>>> it makes sense to understand them to this scary amount of
> depth
> > > >>>>>>>> that CCIE goes into and also any one who i think is preparing
> for
> > > >>>>>>>> the lab exam will have solid foundation of the protocol but
> when
> > > >>>>>>>> proving it in the lab does that
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> make
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> sense
> > > >>>>>>>> and worth going for with SDN in perspective. CCIE is a number
> > > >>>>>>>> that is
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> a
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> proof
> > > >>>>>>>> of your understanding but will that proof be worthy and
> required
> > > >>>>>>>> in the first place ?
> > > >>>>>>>> i hope i made sense of my confusion :)
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 7 Jul
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> 2013 08:16:15 +0200
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> ?
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> From: m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com<mailto:m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com
> >
> > > >>>>>>>>> To: khanzadap_at_hotmail.com<mailto:khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>
> > > >>>>>>>>> CC:
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> I wounder The GUI is created by engineers and you
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> are engineer how can you
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> create the click to do the action and how can you
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> click on this and
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> understand the action happens behind the seen are you a
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> help desk or
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> network engineer ?! again don't think that Cisco program
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> managers are
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> stupid to make the CCIE on of the Cisco programs that became
> a
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> reference
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> for understanding the technology and one of the Business
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> certificates that
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> make a Cisco market big will be dead due to another
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> product specially the
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> product is summarizing the command line again the GUI
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> wont be as easy like
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> the the command line, that's my own opinion and what I
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> see inside this
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> business while working in this field.
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Monsef
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 7:45 AM, sameer khan
> > > >>>>>>>>> <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com<mailto:khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Hello guys,
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> I am in pursuit of my CCIE R&S but now and
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> then i am hearing about sdn or
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> openflow that crushes my motivation and
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> stops me for moving forward, as
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> what i
> > > >>>>>>>>>> seem to perceive is that some
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> point in future, i am not saying tomorrow or
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> any
> > > >>>>>>>>>> time soon, the
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> commands and protocols that i am trying so hard to learn,
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> understand and
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> memorize will be transformed into mouse clicks and with
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> fancy
> > > >>>>>>>>>> GUI that
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> can make all the task easier but at the same time will make
> CCIE
> > > a
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> thing
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> of the past.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> I don't know if my assumption are any right but i am really
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> really
> > > >>>>>>>> confused
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> should i continue with CCIE R&S or take up programming and
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> VMware stuff (
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> though i already consider myself a decent programmer) ?
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> I would be grateful if any one can be please help me out
> clear
> > > the
> > > >>>>>>>> this confusion.
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at
> > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> http://www.ccie.net/
> > > >>>>>>>>
> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > > >>>>>>>> ______
> > > >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > > CCIELab.html>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at
> > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> http://www.ccie.net/
> > > >>>>>>>>
> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > > >>>>>>>> ______
> > > >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > > CCIELab.html>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at
> > > >>>>>>>> http://www.ccie.net/
> > > >>>>>>>>
> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > > >>>>>>>> ______
> > > >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > > CCIELab.html>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > > >>>>>>>> ______
> > > >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > > CCIELab.html>
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> --
> > > >>>>>>> Marc Abel
> > > >>>>>>> CCIE #35470
> > > >>>>>>> (Routing and Switching)
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > > >>>>>>> _______
> > > >>>>>>> ____ Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > > CCIELab.html>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> Marc Abel
> > > >>>>> CCIE #35470
> > > >>>>> (Routing and Switching)
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > > >>>> ___________
> > > >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>>>
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > > CCIELab.html>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > > >>> ___________
> > > >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>>
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > > CCIELab.html>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >>
> > > >> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > > >> ___________
> > > >> Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > > CCIELab.html>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >
> > > > ______________________________**______________________________**
> > > > ___________
> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/**
> > > > list/CCIELab.html <http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > *Virtualization.net*
> > > *Post Jobs, News, Forums, Tutorials*
> > > http://www.virtualization.net
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Narbik Kocharians
> > > CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > > www.MicronicsTraining.com<http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > > Sr. Technical Instructor
> > > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > > A Cisco Learning Partner
> > >
> > >
> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
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> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
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Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Tue Jul 09 2013 - 17:47:59 ART