Re: CCIE Service Providerv3 - General Question

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com> wrote:

> How is it funny? My official apology letter was funny. Narbik getting
> all hot headed and upset is funny. But nothing is funny about EIGRP ;-)
>
> --
> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
> bdennis_at_ine.com
>
> INE, Inc.
> http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
>
> From: Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> Date: Saturday, October 27, 2012 6:06 PM
> To: Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com>
> Cc: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>, Paul Negron <
> negron.paul_at_gmail.com>, Brian McGahan <bmcgahan_at_ine.com>, Cisco
> certification <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>
> Subject: Re: CCIE Service Providerv3 - General Question
>
> That's funny. I just used EIGRP to the edge for the State of Washington in
> an MPLS deployment that THEY wanted. It's actually quite popular in some
> deployments. Not that I agree with it.
>
>
> Paul Negron
> CCIE# 14856
> negron.paul_at_gmail.com
> 303-725-8162
>
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com> wrote:
>
> There is no need for anyone to get upset just because someone doesn9t
> believe in another person's approach. Our approach just don't follow the
> Cisco Authorized Learning approach that the Cisco Learning Partners must
> follow.
>
> On the subject of CCNA. I personally never recommend the CCNA/CCNP
> certifications as a prerequisite to the CCIE much less the actual classes
> from Cisco. The CCNA SP outline pasted below is exactly why. EIGRP for
> SP? RIPv1, RIPv2 and RIPNG for SP? ISDN and Frame-Relay for SP? Tell
> Cisco that 1998 called and they want their CCNA SP training back ;-)
>
> --
> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
> bdennis_at_ine.com
>
> INE, Inc.
> http://www.INE.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/27/12 2:18 AM, "Narbik Kocharians" <narbikk_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Brain,
>
> If we go based on your philosophy, why would a good solid CCIE purchase
> your workbooks or even attend a boot camp? They should just study on their
> own, then, why did you write a book and purchased racks if this is your
> philosophy?
>
> Many CCIEs (NOT ALL) take three to five attempts to pass, because some of
> the vendors teach them how to pass the lab (I am NOT saying that they
> cheat) but the focus of their material is to help the students pass the
> lab, *this is NOT bad*, but it is one philosophy. And the end result is
> that the student ends up spending over 15K not to count the rack
> rental/purchase and the time that they have spent studying, and they are
> happy that they got a lab that they knew 80 percent or more of the
> subjects.
>
> Our philosophy is a little different, i guess our students will second
> that. I believe that if these guys had gone back to basics (In certain
> subjects), they probably would have saved themselves lots of time, money
> and disappointment.
>
>
> The following is the curriculum for one of the CCNA-SP books that we
> teach,
> can you identify how many of these topics are covered in the R&S
> blueprint?
>
> *Routed Network Technologies I*
>
> ? Implement EIGRPv4 and EIGRPv6 on Cisco IOS, IOS-XE and
> IOS-XR routers
>
> ? Describe route redistribution
>
> ? Describe VRF
>
> ? Describe GRE
>
> *Cisco Operating Systems and Platforms I*
>
> ? Implement basic Cisco IOS, IOS-XE and IOS-XR CLI
> operations
>
> ? Implement basic Cisco IOS, IOS-XE and IOS-XR routers
> configurations
>
> *Transport Technologies*
>
> ? Describe SONET and SDH
>
> ? Describe DWDM, IPoDWDM, and ROADM
>
> ? Configure 10 Gigabit Ethernet, 40 Gigabit Ethernet, and
> 100 Gigabit Ethernet interfaces on Cisco routers
>
> ? Describe Frame Relay
>
> ? Describe ATM
>
> ? Describe Metro Ethernet
>
> ? Describe DSL
>
> ? Describe T1, T3, E1, E3, and ISDN
>
> ? Implement PPP encapsulation on Cisco routers serial and
> POS interfaces
>
> ? Describe cable (DOCSIS)
>
> ? Describe the main BRAS and BNG routers functions in IP
> NGN
>
> ? Describe various Passive Optical Network (PON) access
> technologies and FTTx
>
> *Security in the Network*
>
> ? Describe IPsec
>
> ? Describe the relationships between users, user groups,
> tasks groups and task IDs in IOS-XR
>
> ? Describe common types of network attacks
>
> My friend this is just SOME of the subjects that WE are going to cover in
> our CCNA-SP track, now if you like I can post some of the CCNP subjects so
> you can see what Paul and I are referring to. Some of the CCIE-SP
> workbooks/boot camps out there go as far as our CCNA/CCNP level.
>
> We have a workbook and a boot camp for CCIE SP track as well, and it has
> three volumes and we are about to add three more volumes, because we are
> not satisfied that a CCIE SP (A solid one) should ONLY know what the
> blueprint identifies. I guess that is also another difference between us
> and some of the vendors out there.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 10:15 PM, Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> As Brian said,
>
>
> If you are attempting an SP Bootcamp than you need not worry too much
> about the major REAL LIFE differences.
>
> My point is an IOS-XR primer might be in order to see the differences
> you
> WILL be experiencing. CCNA would be perfect for someone who is NOT Route
> Switch Savvy though.
>
> For real life applications, XR is much more powerful in show and debug
> commands that simply do NOT exist in IOS.
>
>
> For the EXAM:
>
> There are NO route-maps so at any time they can pick at RPL which if not
> prepared, you would have issues. For now it is light but they could
> make it
> difficult whenever they feel like it.
>
> Paul
>
>
> Paul Negron
> CCIE# 14856
> negron.paul_at_gmail.com
> 303-725-8162
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Imran Ali <immrccie_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> i am also looking for SP after RS, but apart from different syntax ,
> for which i assume one or two week of practice is enough .
>
> what major software advantageous does XR have and IOS lacks?
>
> On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Paul Negron
> <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>
> My 2 cents,
>
> I agree that the learning curve of basic commands from IOS to IOS-XR is
> easy enough but the sub options carry some hefty differences. I can
> show
> you some flags in Multicast that might make you scratch your head a few
> times.
>
> The line cards are truly distributed and much different output is
> available then anything else for IOS that can help aid in
> troubleshooting.
>
> I would agree that your workbook assumes that you would be at an
> Advanced
> CCIE R& S level. Narbik and I do not take that approach. I guess that
> is a
> difference of opinion. (Agree to disagree).
>
> If you have little experience with IOS-XR, I can see how you would say
> the differences are Very Minor.
> I've been messing around with it for 6 years and STILL sift through
> some
> cool stuff that can be very helpful.
>
> Paul
>
> Paul Negron
> CCIE# 14856
> negron.paul_at_gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2012, at 4:19 PM, Brian McGahan <bmcgahan_at_ine.com> wrote:
>
> No offense Narbik, but I don't necessarily agree with this statement.
>
> If you're already at the CCIE R&S level then going back to CCNA SP is
> going to be a waste of time in my opinion. Passing CCIE R&S today
> already
> assumes that you already have an expert level understanding of layer 2
> technologies, IPv4, IPv6, IGP, BGP, and Intra-AS MPLS L3VPN.
>
>
> CCIE SP is not a large stretch beyond this. It's essentially an
>
> MPLS +
> BGP exam. If you *really* understand the core of MPLS already, then
> you
> just need to know how Inter-AS L3VPN works, L2VPN (which is very
> simple),
> and some enhanced services like Multicast over L3VPN, and of course
> IOS XR
> syntax.
>
>
> Tom, as to what you previously said:
>
> "I'm thinking that learning the theory and implementing it on IOS
>
> would
> take significant time. Then applying that same knowledge to XR might
> not
>
> be
>
> as hard. I'm not sure if that makes much sense without knowing XR that
> much, but I would think that most of the features are similar with some
>
> new
>
> additional ones first implemented on the XR line. Anyone agree or
>
> disagree?"
>
>
> This is 100% correct. If you understand first how all the
>
> technologies
> work on IOS, there is very little involved in porting this to XR. Of
> course there is a learning curve with the syntax, but beyond this the
> *vast* majority of features work exactly the same. After all,
> networking
> is highly based on open standards protocols, e.g. OSPF, IS-IS, BGP,
> LDP,
> etc., so as long as you understand the *why* behind them then it's very
> simple to understand the *how* on IOS XR. Of course there are caveats
> on
> XR, but are by far the minority.
>
>
> As for the INE workbooks and videos (I can't speak for anyone
>
> else's),
> we already assume that you're at CCIE R&S level. This means we assume
> you
> are an *expert* at IGP and BGP. If you're not, then you're wasting
> your
> time trying to work on the SP technologies, because all their
> fundamental
> basis is coming from enterprise routing & switching.
>
>
> As mentioned before in the thread, MPLS Enabled Applications should
>
> be
> seen as required reading for this track. Beyond this I would mainly
> focus
> on the documentation. This of course assumes you are already at CCIE
> R&S
> level for the other topics.
>
>
> We've had an extensive number of candidates that were already CCIE
>
> R&S,
> used INE's SPv3 ATC videos and the SPv3 workbook and then passed the
> exam.
> Let me know if you have more specific questions about it.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593 (R&S/SP/Security)
> bmcgahan_at_INE.com
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
[mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com<nobody_at_groupstudy.com>]
> On Behalf
>
> Of Narbik Kocharians
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 12:08 PM
> To: Tom Kacprzynski
> Cc: John Gitau; Cisco certification; Shaughn; Yuri Bank
> Subject: Re: CCIE Service Providerv3 - General Question
>
> To All,
>
> The best way to approach this is to go through the SP-CCNA/SP-CCNP
>
> classes/materials, recently the old MPLS was removed and it was
> replaced
> with the new SP CCNA and CCNP, which i think was the BEST move Cisco
> has
> ever made for SP certs.
>
>
> You can start with SPNGN1 and then SPNGN2 for your CCNA end then for
>
> SP-CCNP you need 4 courses: SPRoute, SPAdvRoute, SPCore, SPEdge.
>
>
> One of the best curriculums
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Tom Kacprzynski <tom.kac_at_gmail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> Whether Cisco is big in DWDM space or not is one conversation to
>
> have,
>
> but could you guys share with me what type of materials you used to
> study topics like DWDM, ATM or SONET for the CCIE SP written test? I
> know that these topics can be very deep in the amount of complexity
>
> and information.
>
>
> Thanks everyone,
>
> Tom
>
> **
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 6:05 AM, John Gitau <jgitau_at_gmail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> most of our clients run Cisco dwdm/optical gear
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 25 Oct 2012, at 11:11, Shaughn <maniac.smg_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Cisco are big in the DWDM/Optical space. I have worked with very
> large
>
> ISP's running Cisco in that layer of the network.
>
>
> CCIE # 23962 (SP)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 25 Oct 2012, at 9:54 AM, Yuri Bank <yuribank_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Everyone says that Cisco will eventually release some kind of
> virtualized platform for IOS-XR, but I don't see it happening.
> Hell, even the versions of L3/L2IOU that are floating around were
> *not* officially released by Cisco. I think if anything, they
> will go towards a hosted solution, similar to Junosphere, which
> kind of sucks because I really like having my own lab to tinker
>
> with.
>
>
> Dynamips running c7200s can do a lot of the technologies, so
> using it learn the theory and fundamental configurations makes a
>
> lot of sense.
>
> I think this is what most people are doing.
>
> I didn't think Cisco was big in the DWDM/SONET market (I've seen
> ISPs running Fujitsu, Infinera, and Alcalu for optical transport
> but never Cisco). I think the material on that subject would be
> minimal. All very much theory based.
>
> -Yuri
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Tom Kacprzynski
> <tom.kac_at_gmail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Yuri,
> Good to hear from you. Looking over the written and lab
> requirements,
>
> there
>
> seems to be some differences. Written seems to have a lot more
> of
>
> things
>
> like SONET, DWDM, ATM along with the MPLS and IGP. What have you
> used
>
> for
>
> these topics (SONET, DWDM, ATM)? The IS-IS books looks good,
> will
>
> have
>
> to
>
> check it out. I just got the MPLS book and started reading
> "Traffic Engineering with MPLS" by Eric Osborne.
>
> I'm thinking that learning the theory and implementing it on IOS
>
> would
>
> take
>
> significant time. Then applying that same knowledge to XR might
> not
>
> be
>
> as
>
> hard. I'm not sure if that makes much sense without knowing XR
> that
>
> much,
>
> but I would think that most of the features are similar with
> some new additional ones first implemented on the XR line.
> Anyone agree or
>
> disagree?
>
>
> How are the rumors of virtualized XR platform? Any development
>
> there?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom Kacprzynski
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Yuri Bank <yuribank_at_gmail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Tom,
>
> I've glanced over some of INE's material, and it looks pretty
>
> good.
>
> However, workbooks are not the real concern, it's the lab
>
> equipment!
>
> Anyways, I think studying for the CCIE-SP is no different from
> the R&S. *Start with the theory* At least that is what I've
> been doing. I just finished reading
>
> 'OSPF:
>
> Anatomy of an Internet Routing Protocol' and 'MPLS Enabled
> Applications'.
> 'The Complete IS-IS Routing Protocol' Is next on my list.
>
> -Yuri
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 6:31 PM, HEMANTH RAJ
> <hemanthrj_at_gmail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom
>
> I was also with the same confusion as like you after finishing
> my
>
> R&S.
>
> But
> now after purchasing Narbik Workbooks and INE materials for
> CCIE
>
> SPV3. I
>
> felt they have covered the blueprint extensively. So i would
>
> recommend
>
> to
> go for Narbik and INE WB if you want to pursue your SPV3.
> I am doing the same right now.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Tom Kacprzynski <
>
> tom.kac_at_gmail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Now that I'm done with CCIE R&S, there is a void in my
> evenings,
>
> no
>
> more
> date-nights with R1 and SW2 (oh memories) or practice labs.
> So I
>
> was
>
> thinking of looking at the CCIE Service Provider. I wanted to
> get
>
> some
>
> feedback from people that did their RS and moved on to the
> Service Provider track. From my initial research I'm noticing
> that workbooks don't
>
> seem
>
> to
> be comprehensive as with RS, by that I mean not all topics
> are
>
> covered
>
> in
> them (I could be wrong). Is that partly due to the hardware
> requirements?
> What sort of major difference did you noticed studying SPv3
> vs RS
>
> in
>
> terms
> of materials and preparation?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom Kacprzynski
> CCIE#36159
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
>
> ___
>
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
> --
> Problems arise because we talk,problems are not solved because
> we
>
> don't
>
> talk So good or bad talk to your affectionate one's freely.
>
> Yours Friendly,
> H P HEMANTH RAJ
> CCIE#28593 (R&S)
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
>
> ___
>
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> _
>
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> _ Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Narbik Kocharians
> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> *www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>* <
>
> http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>
> Sr. Technical Instructor
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> A Cisco Learning Partner
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Narbik Kocharians
> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> Sr. Technical Instructor
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> A Cisco Learning Partner
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
*Narbik Kocharians
*CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
*www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
Sr. Technical Instructor
YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
A Cisco Learning Partner
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net