Re: CCIE Service Providerv3 - General Question

How is it funny? My official apology letter was funny. Narbik getting all hot headed and upset is funny. But nothing is funny about EIGRP ;-)

--
Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
bdennis_at_ine.com<mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
INE, Inc.
http://www.INE.com<http://www.ine.com/>
From: Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com<mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>>
Date: Saturday, October 27, 2012 6:06 PM
To: Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com<mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
Cc: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com<mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>, Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com<mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>>, Brian McGahan <bmcgahan_at_ine.com<mailto:bmcgahan_at_ine.com>>, Cisco certification <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
Subject: Re: CCIE Service Providerv3 - General Question
That's funny. I just used EIGRP to the edge for the State of Washington in an MPLS deployment that THEY wanted. It's actually quite popular in some deployments. Not that I agree with it.
Paul Negron
CCIE# 14856
negron.paul_at_gmail.com<mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
303-725-8162
On Oct 27, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com<mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>> wrote:
There is no need for anyone to get upset just because someone doesn)vt
believe in another person's approach.  Our approach just don't follow the
Cisco Authorized Learning approach that the Cisco Learning Partners must
follow.
On the subject of CCNA.  I personally never recommend the CCNA/CCNP
certifications as a prerequisite to the CCIE much less the actual classes
from Cisco.  The CCNA SP outline pasted below is exactly why.  EIGRP for
SP?  RIPv1, RIPv2 and RIPNG for SP?  ISDN and Frame-Relay for SP?  Tell
Cisco that 1998 called and they want their CCNA SP training back ;-)
--
Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
bdennis_at_ine.com<mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
INE, Inc.
http://www.INE.com
On 10/27/12 2:18 AM, "Narbik Kocharians" <narbikk_at_gmail.com<mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
Brain,
If we go based on your philosophy, why would a good solid CCIE purchase
your workbooks or even attend a boot camp? They should just study on their
own, then, why did you write a book and purchased racks if this is your
philosophy?
Many CCIEs (NOT ALL) take three to five attempts to pass, because some of
the vendors teach them how to pass the lab (I am NOT saying that they
cheat) but the focus of their material is to help the students pass the
lab, *this is NOT bad*, but it is one philosophy. And the end result is
that the student ends up spending over 15K not to count the rack
rental/purchase and the time that they have spent studying, and they are
happy that they got a lab that they knew 80 percent or more of the
subjects.
Our philosophy is a little different, i guess our students will second
that. I believe that if these guys had gone back to basics (In certain
subjects), they probably would have saved themselves lots of time, money
and disappointment.
The following is the curriculum for one of the CCNA-SP books that we
teach,
can you identify how many of these topics are covered in the R&S
blueprint?
*Routed Network Technologies I*
?                Implement EIGRPv4 and EIGRPv6 on Cisco IOS, IOS-XE and
IOS-XR routers
?                Describe route redistribution
?                Describe VRF
?                Describe GRE
*Cisco Operating Systems and Platforms I*
?                Implement basic Cisco IOS, IOS-XE and IOS-XR CLI
operations
?                Implement basic Cisco IOS, IOS-XE and IOS-XR routers
configurations
*Transport Technologies*
?                Describe SONET and SDH
?                Describe DWDM, IPoDWDM, and ROADM
?                Configure 10 Gigabit Ethernet, 40 Gigabit Ethernet, and
100 Gigabit Ethernet interfaces on Cisco routers
?                Describe Frame Relay
?                Describe ATM
?                Describe Metro Ethernet
?                Describe DSL
?                Describe T1, T3, E1, E3, and ISDN
?                Implement PPP encapsulation on Cisco routers serial and
POS interfaces
?                Describe cable (DOCSIS)
?                Describe the main BRAS and BNG routers functions in IP
NGN
?                Describe various Passive Optical Network (PON) access
technologies and FTTx
*Security in the Network*
?                Describe IPsec
?                Describe the relationships between users, user groups,
tasks groups and task IDs in IOS-XR
?                Describe common types of network attacks
My friend this is just SOME of the subjects that WE are going to cover in
our CCNA-SP track, now if you like I can post some of the CCNP subjects so
you can see what Paul and I are referring to. Some of the CCIE-SP
workbooks/boot camps out there go as far as our CCNA/CCNP level.
We have a workbook and a boot camp for CCIE SP track as well, and it has
three volumes and we are about to add three more volumes, because we are
not satisfied that a CCIE SP (A solid one) should ONLY know what the
blueprint identifies. I guess that is also another difference between us
and some of the vendors out there.
On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 10:15 PM, Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com<mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>>
wrote:
As Brian said,
If you are attempting an SP Bootcamp than you need not worry too much
about the major REAL LIFE differences.
My point is an IOS-XR primer might be in order to see the differences
you
WILL be experiencing. CCNA would be perfect for someone who is NOT Route
Switch Savvy though.
For real life applications, XR is much more powerful in show and debug
commands that simply do NOT exist in IOS.
For the EXAM:
There are NO route-maps so at any time they can pick at RPL which if not
prepared, you would have issues. For now it is light but they could
make it
difficult whenever they feel like it.
Paul
Paul Negron
CCIE# 14856
negron.paul_at_gmail.com<mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
303-725-8162
On Oct 26, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Imran Ali <immrccie_at_gmail.com<mailto:immrccie_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
Paul,
i am also  looking for SP after RS, but  apart from different syntax ,
for  which i assume one or two week of practice is enough .
what  major  software advantageous does XR have  and  IOS lacks?
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Paul Negron
<negron.paul_at_gmail.com<mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>>wrote:
My 2 cents,
I agree that the learning curve of basic commands from IOS to IOS-XR is
easy enough but the sub options carry some hefty differences. I can
show
you some flags in Multicast that might make you scratch your head a few
times.
The line cards are truly distributed and much different output is
available then anything else for IOS that can help aid in
troubleshooting.
I would agree that your workbook assumes that you would be at an
Advanced
CCIE R& S level. Narbik and I do not take that approach. I guess that
is a
difference of opinion. (Agree to disagree).
If you have little experience with IOS-XR, I can see how you would say
the differences are Very Minor.
I've been messing around with it for 6 years and STILL sift through
some
cool stuff that can be very helpful.
Paul
Paul Negron
CCIE# 14856
negron.paul_at_gmail.com<mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
On Oct 26, 2012, at 4:19 PM, Brian McGahan <bmcgahan_at_ine.com<mailto:bmcgahan_at_ine.com>> wrote:
No offense Narbik, but I don't necessarily agree with this statement.
If you're already at the CCIE R&S level then going back to CCNA SP is
going to be a waste of time in my opinion.  Passing CCIE R&S today
already
assumes that you already have an expert level understanding of layer 2
technologies, IPv4, IPv6, IGP, BGP, and Intra-AS MPLS L3VPN.
CCIE SP is not a large stretch beyond this.  It's essentially an
MPLS +
BGP exam.  If you *really* understand the core of MPLS already, then
you
just need to know how Inter-AS L3VPN works, L2VPN (which is very
simple),
and some enhanced services like Multicast over L3VPN, and of course
IOS XR
syntax.
Tom, as to what you previously said:
"I'm thinking that learning the theory and implementing it on IOS
would
take significant time. Then applying that same knowledge to XR might
not
be
as hard. I'm not sure if that makes much sense without knowing XR that
much, but I would think that most of the features are similar with some
new
additional ones first implemented on the XR line. Anyone agree or
disagree?"
This is 100% correct.  If you understand first how all the
technologies
work on IOS, there is very little involved in porting this to XR.  Of
course there is a learning curve with the syntax, but beyond this the
*vast* majority of features work exactly the same.  After all,
networking
is highly based on open standards protocols, e.g. OSPF, IS-IS, BGP,
LDP,
etc., so as long as you understand the *why* behind them then it's very
simple to understand the *how* on IOS XR.  Of course there are caveats
on
XR, but are by far the minority.
As for the INE workbooks and videos (I can't speak for anyone
else's),
we already assume that you're at CCIE R&S level.  This means we assume
you
are an *expert* at IGP and BGP.  If you're not, then you're wasting
your
time trying to work on the SP technologies, because all their
fundamental
basis is coming from enterprise routing & switching.
As mentioned before in the thread, MPLS Enabled Applications should
be
seen as required reading for this track.  Beyond this I would mainly
focus
on the documentation.  This of course assumes you are already at CCIE
R&S
level for the other topics.
We've had an extensive number of candidates that were already CCIE
R&S,
used INE's SPv3 ATC videos and the SPv3 workbook and then passed the
exam.
Let me know if you have more specific questions about it.
Thanks,
Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593 (R&S/SP/Security)
bmcgahan_at_INE.com<mailto:bmcgahan_at_INE.com>
Internetwork Expert, Inc.
http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com> [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of Narbik Kocharians
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 12:08 PM
To: Tom Kacprzynski
Cc: John Gitau; Cisco certification; Shaughn; Yuri Bank
Subject: Re: CCIE Service Providerv3 - General Question
To All,
The best way to approach this is to go through the SP-CCNA/SP-CCNP
classes/materials, recently the old MPLS was removed and it was
replaced
with the new SP CCNA and CCNP, which i think was the BEST move Cisco
has
ever made for SP certs.
You can start with SPNGN1 and then SPNGN2 for your CCNA end then for
SP-CCNP you need 4 courses: SPRoute, SPAdvRoute, SPCore, SPEdge.
One of the best curriculums
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Tom Kacprzynski <tom.kac_at_gmail.com<mailto:tom.kac_at_gmail.com>>
wrote:
Whether Cisco is big in DWDM space or not is one conversation to
have,
but could you guys share with me what type of materials you used to
study topics like DWDM, ATM or SONET for the CCIE SP written test? I
know that these topics can be very deep in the amount of complexity
and information.
Thanks everyone,
Tom
**
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 6:05 AM, John Gitau <jgitau_at_gmail.com<mailto:jgitau_at_gmail.com>>
wrote:
most of our clients run Cisco dwdm/optical gear
Sent from my iPad
On 25 Oct 2012, at 11:11, Shaughn <maniac.smg_at_gmail.com<mailto:maniac.smg_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
Cisco are big in the DWDM/Optical space. I have worked with very
large
ISP's running Cisco in that layer of the network.
CCIE # 23962 (SP)
Sent from my iPhone
On 25 Oct 2012, at 9:54 AM, Yuri Bank <yuribank_at_gmail.com<mailto:yuribank_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
Everyone says that Cisco will eventually release some kind of
virtualized platform for IOS-XR, but I don't see it happening.
Hell, even the versions of L3/L2IOU that are floating around were
*not* officially released by Cisco. I think if anything, they
will go towards a hosted solution, similar to Junosphere, which
kind of sucks because I really like having my own lab to tinker
with.
Dynamips running c7200s can do a lot of the technologies, so
using it learn the theory and fundamental configurations makes a
lot of sense.
I think this is what most people are doing.
I didn't think Cisco was big in the DWDM/SONET market (I've seen
ISPs running Fujitsu, Infinera, and Alcalu for optical transport
but never Cisco). I think the material on that subject would be
minimal. All very much theory based.
-Yuri
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Tom Kacprzynski
<tom.kac_at_gmail.com<mailto:tom.kac_at_gmail.com>>
wrote:
Hi Yuri,
Good to hear from you. Looking over the written and lab
requirements,
there
seems to be some differences. Written seems to have a lot more
of
things
like SONET, DWDM, ATM along with the MPLS and IGP. What have you
used
for
these topics (SONET, DWDM, ATM)? The IS-IS books looks good,
will
have
to
check it out. I just got the MPLS book and started reading
"Traffic Engineering with MPLS" by Eric Osborne.
I'm thinking that learning the theory and implementing it on IOS
would
take
significant time. Then applying that same knowledge to XR might
not
be
as
hard. I'm not sure if that makes much sense without knowing XR
that
much,
but I would think that most of the features are similar with
some new additional ones first implemented on the XR line.
Anyone agree or
disagree?
How are the rumors of virtualized XR platform? Any development
there?
Thanks
Tom Kacprzynski
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Yuri Bank <yuribank_at_gmail.com<mailto:yuribank_at_gmail.com>>
wrote:
Hey Tom,
I've glanced over some of INE's material, and it looks pretty
good.
However, workbooks are not the real concern, it's the lab
equipment!
Anyways, I think studying for the CCIE-SP is no different from
the R&S. *Start with the theory* At least that is what I've
been doing. I just finished reading
'OSPF:
Anatomy of an Internet Routing Protocol' and 'MPLS Enabled
Applications'.
'The Complete IS-IS Routing Protocol' Is next on my list.
-Yuri
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 6:31 PM, HEMANTH RAJ
<hemanthrj_at_gmail.com<mailto:hemanthrj_at_gmail.com>>
wrote:
Hi Tom
I was also with the same confusion as like you after finishing
my
R&S.
But
now after purchasing Narbik Workbooks and INE materials for
CCIE
SPV3. I
felt they have covered the blueprint extensively. So i would
recommend
to
go for Narbik and INE WB if you want to pursue your SPV3.
I am doing the same right now.
Thanks
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Tom Kacprzynski <
tom.kac_at_gmail.com<mailto:tom.kac_at_gmail.com>>
wrote:
Hello,
Now that I'm done with CCIE R&S, there is a void in my
evenings,
no
more
date-nights with R1 and SW2 (oh memories) or practice labs.
So I
was
thinking of looking at the CCIE Service Provider. I wanted to
get
some
feedback from people that did their RS and moved on to the
Service Provider track. From my initial research I'm noticing
that workbooks don't
seem
to
be comprehensive as with RS, by that I mean not all topics
are
covered
in
them (I could be wrong). Is that partly due to the hardware
requirements?
What sort of major difference did you noticed studying SPv3
vs RS
in
terms
of materials and preparation?
Thanks
Tom Kacprzynski
CCIE#36159
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net