Re: CCIE Service Providerv3 - General Question

Oh.

SInce the old Curriculum was based on StrataCom. How is it in ANY WAY the
same?

Just playing devil's advocate here. SInce I actually taught and deployed that
stuff.

Paul

Paul Negron
CCIE# 14856
negron.paul_at_gmail.com
303-725-8162

On Oct 27, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com> wrote:

> There is no need for anyone to get upset just because someone doesn9t
> believe in another person's approach. Our approach just don't follow the
> Cisco Authorized Learning approach that the Cisco Learning Partners must
> follow.
>
> On the subject of CCNA. I personally never recommend the CCNA/CCNP
> certifications as a prerequisite to the CCIE much less the actual classes
> from Cisco. The CCNA SP outline pasted below is exactly why. EIGRP for
> SP? RIPv1, RIPv2 and RIPNG for SP? ISDN and Frame-Relay for SP? Tell
> Cisco that 1998 called and they want their CCNA SP training back ;-)
>
> --
> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
> bdennis_at_ine.com
>
> INE, Inc.
> http://www.INE.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/27/12 2:18 AM, "Narbik Kocharians" <narbikk_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Brain,
>>
>> If we go based on your philosophy, why would a good solid CCIE purchase
>> your workbooks or even attend a boot camp? They should just study on their
>> own, then, why did you write a book and purchased racks if this is your
>> philosophy?
>>
>> Many CCIEs (NOT ALL) take three to five attempts to pass, because some of
>> the vendors teach them how to pass the lab (I am NOT saying that they
>> cheat) but the focus of their material is to help the students pass the
>> lab, *this is NOT bad*, but it is one philosophy. And the end result is
>> that the student ends up spending over 15K not to count the rack
>> rental/purchase and the time that they have spent studying, and they are
>> happy that they got a lab that they knew 80 percent or more of the
>> subjects.
>>
>> Our philosophy is a little different, i guess our students will second
>> that. I believe that if these guys had gone back to basics (In certain
>> subjects), they probably would have saved themselves lots of time, money
>> and disappointment.
>>
>>
>> The following is the curriculum for one of the CCNA-SP books that we
>> teach,
>> can you identify how many of these topics are covered in the R&S
>> blueprint?
>>
>> *Routed Network Technologies I*
>>
>> ? Implement EIGRPv4 and EIGRPv6 on Cisco IOS, IOS-XE and
>> IOS-XR routers
>>
>> ? Describe route redistribution
>>
>> ? Describe VRF
>>
>> ? Describe GRE
>>
>> *Cisco Operating Systems and Platforms I*
>>
>> ? Implement basic Cisco IOS, IOS-XE and IOS-XR CLI
>> operations
>>
>> ? Implement basic Cisco IOS, IOS-XE and IOS-XR routers
>> configurations
>>
>> *Transport Technologies*
>>
>> ? Describe SONET and SDH
>>
>> ? Describe DWDM, IPoDWDM, and ROADM
>>
>> ? Configure 10 Gigabit Ethernet, 40 Gigabit Ethernet, and
>> 100 Gigabit Ethernet interfaces on Cisco routers
>>
>> ? Describe Frame Relay
>>
>> ? Describe ATM
>>
>> ? Describe Metro Ethernet
>>
>> ? Describe DSL
>>
>> ? Describe T1, T3, E1, E3, and ISDN
>>
>> ? Implement PPP encapsulation on Cisco routers serial and
>> POS interfaces
>>
>> ? Describe cable (DOCSIS)
>>
>> ? Describe the main BRAS and BNG routers functions in IP
>> NGN
>>
>> ? Describe various Passive Optical Network (PON) access
>> technologies and FTTx
>>
>> *Security in the Network*
>>
>> ? Describe IPsec
>>
>> ? Describe the relationships between users, user groups,
>> tasks groups and task IDs in IOS-XR
>>
>> ? Describe common types of network attacks
>>
>> My friend this is just SOME of the subjects that WE are going to cover in
>> our CCNA-SP track, now if you like I can post some of the CCNP subjects so
>> you can see what Paul and I are referring to. Some of the CCIE-SP
>> workbooks/boot camps out there go as far as our CCNA/CCNP level.
>>
>> We have a workbook and a boot camp for CCIE SP track as well, and it has
>> three volumes and we are about to add three more volumes, because we are
>> not satisfied that a CCIE SP (A solid one) should ONLY know what the
>> blueprint identifies. I guess that is also another difference between us
>> and some of the vendors out there.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 10:15 PM, Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As Brian said,
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are attempting an SP Bootcamp than you need not worry too much
>>> about the major REAL LIFE differences.
>>>
>>> My point is an IOS-XR primer might be in order to see the differences
>>> you
>>> WILL be experiencing. CCNA would be perfect for someone who is NOT Route
>>> Switch Savvy though.
>>>
>>> For real life applications, XR is much more powerful in show and debug
>>> commands that simply do NOT exist in IOS.
>>>
>>>
>>> For the EXAM:
>>>
>>> There are NO route-maps so at any time they can pick at RPL which if not
>>> prepared, you would have issues. For now it is light but they could
>>> make it
>>> difficult whenever they feel like it.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul Negron
>>> CCIE# 14856
>>> negron.paul_at_gmail.com
>>> 303-725-8162
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 26, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Imran Ali <immrccie_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>> i am also looking for SP after RS, but apart from different syntax ,
>>> for which i assume one or two week of practice is enough .
>>>
>>> what major software advantageous does XR have and IOS lacks?
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Paul Negron
>>> <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> My 2 cents,
>>>>
>>>> I agree that the learning curve of basic commands from IOS to IOS-XR is
>>>> easy enough but the sub options carry some hefty differences. I can
>>>> show
>>>> you some flags in Multicast that might make you scratch your head a few
>>>> times.
>>>>
>>>> The line cards are truly distributed and much different output is
>>>> available then anything else for IOS that can help aid in
>>>> troubleshooting.
>>>>
>>>> I would agree that your workbook assumes that you would be at an
>>>> Advanced
>>>> CCIE R& S level. Narbik and I do not take that approach. I guess that
>>>> is a
>>>> difference of opinion. (Agree to disagree).
>>>>
>>>> If you have little experience with IOS-XR, I can see how you would say
>>>> the differences are Very Minor.
>>>> I've been messing around with it for 6 years and STILL sift through
>>>> some
>>>> cool stuff that can be very helpful.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> Paul Negron
>>>> CCIE# 14856
>>>> negron.paul_at_gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 26, 2012, at 4:19 PM, Brian McGahan <bmcgahan_at_ine.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No offense Narbik, but I don't necessarily agree with this statement.
>>>> If you're already at the CCIE R&S level then going back to CCNA SP is
>>>> going to be a waste of time in my opinion. Passing CCIE R&S today
>>>> already
>>>> assumes that you already have an expert level understanding of layer 2
>>>> technologies, IPv4, IPv6, IGP, BGP, and Intra-AS MPLS L3VPN.
>>>>>
>>>>> CCIE SP is not a large stretch beyond this. It's essentially an
>>>> MPLS +
>>>> BGP exam. If you *really* understand the core of MPLS already, then
>>>> you
>>>> just need to know how Inter-AS L3VPN works, L2VPN (which is very
>>>> simple),
>>>> and some enhanced services like Multicast over L3VPN, and of course
>>>> IOS XR
>>>> syntax.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom, as to what you previously said:
>>>>>
>>>>> "I'm thinking that learning the theory and implementing it on IOS
>>>> would
>>>> take significant time. Then applying that same knowledge to XR might
>>>> not
>> be
>>>> as hard. I'm not sure if that makes much sense without knowing XR that
>>>> much, but I would think that most of the features are similar with some
>> new
>>>> additional ones first implemented on the XR line. Anyone agree or
>> disagree?"
>>>>>
>>>>> This is 100% correct. If you understand first how all the
>>>> technologies
>>>> work on IOS, there is very little involved in porting this to XR. Of
>>>> course there is a learning curve with the syntax, but beyond this the
>>>> *vast* majority of features work exactly the same. After all,
>>>> networking
>>>> is highly based on open standards protocols, e.g. OSPF, IS-IS, BGP,
>>>> LDP,
>>>> etc., so as long as you understand the *why* behind them then it's very
>>>> simple to understand the *how* on IOS XR. Of course there are caveats
>>>> on
>>>> XR, but are by far the minority.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for the INE workbooks and videos (I can't speak for anyone
>>>> else's),
>>>> we already assume that you're at CCIE R&S level. This means we assume
>>>> you
>>>> are an *expert* at IGP and BGP. If you're not, then you're wasting
>>>> your
>>>> time trying to work on the SP technologies, because all their
>>>> fundamental
>>>> basis is coming from enterprise routing & switching.
>>>>>
>>>>> As mentioned before in the thread, MPLS Enabled Applications should
>>>> be
>>>> seen as required reading for this track. Beyond this I would mainly
>>>> focus
>>>> on the documentation. This of course assumes you are already at CCIE
>>>> R&S
>>>> level for the other topics.
>>>>>
>>>>> We've had an extensive number of candidates that were already CCIE
>>>> R&S,
>>>> used INE's SPv3 ATC videos and the SPv3 workbook and then passed the
>>>> exam.
>>>> Let me know if you have more specific questions about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593 (R&S/SP/Security)
>>>>> bmcgahan_at_INE.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>>> http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>>>> Of Narbik Kocharians
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 12:08 PM
>>>>> To: Tom Kacprzynski
>>>>> Cc: John Gitau; Cisco certification; Shaughn; Yuri Bank
>>>>> Subject: Re: CCIE Service Providerv3 - General Question
>>>>>
>>>>> To All,
>>>>>
>>>>> The best way to approach this is to go through the SP-CCNA/SP-CCNP
>>>> classes/materials, recently the old MPLS was removed and it was
>>>> replaced
>>>> with the new SP CCNA and CCNP, which i think was the BEST move Cisco
>>>> has
>>>> ever made for SP certs.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can start with SPNGN1 and then SPNGN2 for your CCNA end then for
>>>> SP-CCNP you need 4 courses: SPRoute, SPAdvRoute, SPCore, SPEdge.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the best curriculums
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Tom Kacprzynski <tom.kac_at_gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Whether Cisco is big in DWDM space or not is one conversation to
>>>> have,
>>>>>> but could you guys share with me what type of materials you used to
>>>>>> study topics like DWDM, ATM or SONET for the CCIE SP written test? I
>>>>>> know that these topics can be very deep in the amount of complexity
>>>> and information.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 6:05 AM, John Gitau <jgitau_at_gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> most of our clients run Cisco dwdm/optical gear
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25 Oct 2012, at 11:11, Shaughn <maniac.smg_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cisco are big in the DWDM/Optical space. I have worked with very
>>>>>>>> large
>>>>>>> ISP's running Cisco in that layer of the network.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CCIE # 23962 (SP)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25 Oct 2012, at 9:54 AM, Yuri Bank <yuribank_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Everyone says that Cisco will eventually release some kind of
>>>>>>>>> virtualized platform for IOS-XR, but I don't see it happening.
>>>>>>>>> Hell, even the versions of L3/L2IOU that are floating around were
>>>>>>>>> *not* officially released by Cisco. I think if anything, they
>>>>>>>>> will go towards a hosted solution, similar to Junosphere, which
>>>>>>>>> kind of sucks because I really like having my own lab to tinker
>>>> with.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dynamips running c7200s can do a lot of the technologies, so
>>>>>>>>> using it learn the theory and fundamental configurations makes a
>>>> lot of sense.
>>>>>>>>> I think this is what most people are doing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I didn't think Cisco was big in the DWDM/SONET market (I've seen
>>>>>>>>> ISPs running Fujitsu, Infinera, and Alcalu for optical transport
>>>>>>>>> but never Cisco). I think the material on that subject would be
>>>>>>>>> minimal. All very much theory based.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Yuri
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Tom Kacprzynski
>>>>>>>>> <tom.kac_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Yuri,
>>>>>>>>>> Good to hear from you. Looking over the written and lab
>>>>>>>>>> requirements,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> seems to be some differences. Written seems to have a lot more
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>> like SONET, DWDM, ATM along with the MPLS and IGP. What have you
>>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> these topics (SONET, DWDM, ATM)? The IS-IS books looks good,
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> check it out. I just got the MPLS book and started reading
>>>>>>>>>> "Traffic Engineering with MPLS" by Eric Osborne.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking that learning the theory and implementing it on IOS
>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>>>> significant time. Then applying that same knowledge to XR might
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> hard. I'm not sure if that makes much sense without knowing XR
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> much,
>>>>>>>>>> but I would think that most of the features are similar with
>>>>>>>>>> some new additional ones first implemented on the XR line.
>>>>>>>>>> Anyone agree or
>>>>>>> disagree?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How are the rumors of virtualized XR platform? Any development
>>>> there?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tom Kacprzynski
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Yuri Bank <yuribank_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Tom,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've glanced over some of INE's material, and it looks pretty
>>>> good.
>>>>>>>>>>> However, workbooks are not the real concern, it's the lab
>>>> equipment!
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways, I think studying for the CCIE-SP is no different from
>>>>>>>>>>> the R&S. *Start with the theory* At least that is what I've
>>>>>>>>>>> been doing. I just finished reading
>>>>>> 'OSPF:
>>>>>>>>>>> Anatomy of an Internet Routing Protocol' and 'MPLS Enabled
>>>>>>>>>>> Applications'.
>>>>>>>>>>> 'The Complete IS-IS Routing Protocol' Is next on my list.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Yuri
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 6:31 PM, HEMANTH RAJ
>>>>>>>>>>> <hemanthrj_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Tom
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was also with the same confusion as like you after finishing
>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> R&S.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>>>>>> now after purchasing Narbik Workbooks and INE materials for
>>>>>>>>>>>> CCIE
>>>>>>> SPV3. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> felt they have covered the blueprint extensively. So i would
>>>>>>> recommend
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> go for Narbik and INE WB if you want to pursue your SPV3.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am doing the same right now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Tom Kacprzynski <
>>>>>> tom.kac_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now that I'm done with CCIE R&S, there is a void in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> evenings,
>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> date-nights with R1 and SW2 (oh memories) or practice labs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking of looking at the CCIE Service Provider. I wanted to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback from people that did their RS and moved on to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Service Provider track. From my initial research I'm noticing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that workbooks don't
>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be comprehensive as with RS, by that I mean not all topics
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> covered
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them (I could be wrong). Is that partly due to the hardware
>>>>>>>>>>>>> requirements?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What sort of major difference did you noticed studying SPv3
>>>>>>>>>>>>> vs RS
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> terms
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of materials and preparation?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tom Kacprzynski
>>>>>>>>>>>>> CCIE#36159
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Problems arise because we talk,problems are not solved because
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> talk So good or bad talk to your affectionate one's freely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours Friendly,
>>>>>>>>>>>> H P HEMANTH RAJ
>>>>>>>>>>>> CCIE#28593 (R&S)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> _
>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> _ Subscription information may be found at:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Narbik Kocharians
>>>>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>* <
>>>> http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>> A Cisco Learning Partner
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Narbik Kocharians
>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>> A Cisco Learning Partner
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
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Received on Sat Oct 27 2012 - 16:11:38 ART