Re: OER/PfR at lab exam?

I also can't break NDA but I will side with Brian.

Narbik, from what I have seen from my 3 attempts in the last year is that
the notion that there are core topics, and other topics that " you probably
wont see much of" is not a view held by Cisco.

Students should be well prepared for these "fringe" technologies such as
OER/PFR, EEM, IPv6 in all its flavors, SNMP, advanced services such as
tftp, logging, etc etc. On my first couple attempts I found myself well
prepared for the "core" but totally unprepared for some of the rest.

Vendors would do well to quit doing a disservice to their customers and
giving them the false sense that Cisco is going to "fair" about these
topics. The exam today is designed to fail you. It hits you where
candidates are usually least prepared.

-Marc

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Carlos G Mendioroz <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>wrote:

> Narbik,
> I fail to see a valid (NDA) way you may have to be able to disagree.
>
> OSPF, MPLS and PfR are topics, and it is up to cisco to weight them in any
> given exam, and you should have no more than 2 or 3 old samples of what is
> really in there.
>
> Am I missing something here ?
> -Carlos
>
>
> Narbik Kocharians @ 23/05/2012 03:04 -0300 dixit:
>
>> Someone could easily see more points in PfR than say OSPF or MPLS in the
>> lab today.
>>
>> Totally disagree with that statement. You must be kidding.
>>
>> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Brian Dennis<bdennis_at_ine.com> wrote:
>>
>> A newsletter will be going out tomorrow with the link to view the
>>> session.
>>> I'll post the link here.
>>>
>>> I want to do a three or five day online class covering PfR with labs as
>>> even though the seminar ran a full day I felt pressured to get a lot
>>> covered in that time. Someone could easily see more points in PfR than
>>> say
>>> OSPF or MPLS in the lab today.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/****Voice)
>>>
>>> bdennis_at_ine.com
>>>
>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>> http://www.INE.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/22/2012 08:10 AM, Ivan Hrvatska wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> is this seminar posted somewhere online? I have lab exam 19th oh June
>>>> so it would be nice to check this topic. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Mohammad Moghaddas
>>>> <moghaddas.it_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi there.
>>>>> Sorry but I'm confused. When does the seminar start?
>>>>> Brian said that it will be on May 16th, but INE's reminder says it is
>>>>> right
>>>>> now! The timer of ine.com/live is freezed on zero.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 8:43 AM, marc abel<marcabel_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe I missed it but did you ever send out the sign-up link? I sit my
>>>>>> lab
>>>>>> the 18th so I sure would love to sit on your session the 16th.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:34 PM, Brian Dennis<bdennis_at_ine.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The session will be Wednesday May 16. I'll get the sign-up link and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> details out tomorrow. I'm planning on doing about 9 or 10 hours with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> session being recorded in our classroom studio in Bellevue, WA. If
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> can't attend the live session don't worry as I'll make the recording
>>>>>>> available for anyone to download.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/******Voice)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bdennis_at_ine.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>>>>> http://www.INE.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 04/26/2012 08:37 AM, Jay McMickle wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brian @ INE stated he would put together an OER free session. Still
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yet
>>>>>>>> to be seen, but I'm sure it's to come. ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Jay McMickle- CCNP,CCSP,CCDP
>>>>>>>> Sent from iJay
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 26, 2012, at 4:31 AM, Ivan Hrvatska<ivanzghr_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just see "include me" replays here :) What about the thing where
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> everyone wants to be included?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Viet-Hung Ton<vton_at_integra.fr>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Brian,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Plz include me too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Viet
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Mail original -----
>>>>>>>>>> De: "Bruno Silva"<boss.silva_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> C: "Aamir Aziz"<aamiraz77_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: "Lazar Adrian"<adrianlazar_at_gmail.com>******, "Brian Dennis"<
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bdennis_at_ine.com>,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>>>>>>> EnvoyC): Mardi 17 Avril 2012 22:00:22
>>>>>>>>>> Objet: Re: OER/PfR at lab exam?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Brian,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would like to be included as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Aamir Aziz<aamiraz77_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear Brian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Plz include me also.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thx
>>>>>>>>>>> Aamir
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2012, at 9:53 PM, Lazar Adrian<adrianlazar_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Brian,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please also include me on the PFR document distribution list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Brian Dennis<bdennis_at_ine.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Since PfR/OER is relatively new to the lab exam it's not
>>>>>>>>>>>> covered
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a topic like OSPF, MPLS VPNs, etc in most products. That
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> currently spend at least one full day covering it in my 10 Day
>>>>>>>>>>> R&S
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bootcamps and I cover it in-depth as getting 5 or 6 points on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lab
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> exam can be the difference between passing or failing. I start
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> basics (i.e. load balancing, PfR static& BGP route
>>>>>>>>>>>>> manipulation,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc )
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> work into the more advanced configurations (i.e. link groups,
>>>>>>>>>>> fast
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> mode,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jitter probes, delay, PBR based upon DSCP, using PfR for sink
>>>>>>>>>>>>> holing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> traffic, etc).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be honest there are a ton of strange, for lack of a better
>>>>>>>>>>>>> term,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> quirks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> with PfR that can cause trouble when someone is just starting
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> learning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> PfR. So although it may seem like a good idea for me to just
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> throwing
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the labs from my bootcamp, that isn't going to be what you
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> truly understand it. It would be like saying to me "Hey Brian I
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn MPLS VPNs" and I say "Here are a couple labs. Good
>>>>>>>>>>>>> luck!".
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Think
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that will work? No.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is just a few example of quirks with PfR: An access-list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> learn list can not match IP addresses but an access-list with a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> oer-map
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should match IP addresses. When using fast mode with a learn
>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to use a prefix list when also matching with an access-list. Or
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> configure PfR to do PBR unconditionally without any OOP
>>>>>>>>>>>>> condition,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I mentioned there are a lot of pitfalls with learning PfR
>>>>>>>>>>>>> due
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact it's a newer technology and went through a lot of changes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IOS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12.4T. PfR is an awesome technology and I personally love it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> complicated to learn for anyone starting out. I would venture to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is it one of the most complicated of any technology currently
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> covered
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the lab exam. The documentation is 33% bigger than the OSPF
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and it's only getting larger with QoS being added and PfR
>>>>>>>>>>> domains
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> releases.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I started a blog series on it (http://goo.gl/yH0ip) but have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>>>>> decided to just write a whole document covering PfR as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> too big to cover in a few blog posts. I currently have over 100
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pages
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm hoping to release it around the end of the month. If anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> a copy, free of charge of course, just let me know.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lastly if anyone wants to come see me cover PfR in person free
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> charge
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just contact INE sales and ask to audit one day of my bootcamp.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> normally covered on the 8th day of my bootcamp. I'm in Dubai
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> week
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> covered PfR yesterday and have a private bootcamp next week but
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm teaching in Washington, DC and Seattle next so feel free to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> stop
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> by.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/********
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Voice)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bdennis_at_ine.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.INE.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/11/2012 02:35 AM, Ivan Hrvatska wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just purchased ciscopress ccie r&s exam cert guide 4th
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> edition,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since I had 3rd in which there was nothing about OER and PfR.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say that the quality of that subject in new edition of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> book
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really poor. One config example without any explanations and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any topology diagrams. Nothing that can help someone to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, my question is how deep this subject goes in potential
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> task
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exam? How much time should I spend on it since it can be very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complex
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature? The book says:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "As you will see as you explore PfR more deeply, it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remarkably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> powerful. As you would expect, it also has many configuration
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the CCIE R&S qualifying exam, you should understand the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concepts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of PfR and how it operates and its core functionality."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ******________________________**__*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *__**
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __**
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ___________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>> ___________
>>> Subscription information may be found at: http://www.groupstudy.com/**
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>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> --
> Carlos G Mendioroz <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar> LW7 EQI Argentina
>

-- 
Marc Abel
CCIE #35470
(Routing and Switching)
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net