Re: OT: Other vendors

Hi

I think this is out of topic , This forum is for people persuing CCIE study
and those of us who want to learn some key technology issues and different
vendor implementations.

I have been a member of group sudy for a few years a passive listener to
every multicast feed. The reason why i make it a habit to read group study
is not because I want to read the CCIE suscess stories but am pationate
about understanding technology and each vendors implementation and how it
matches the general RFC guideless.

Initially didnt want to respond to this duscussion but i want you guys to
check the following

1. Currently which vendor is the number one in the mobile IP backhaul
market ?
-What are the key technologies in the mobile backhaul- IS-IS ,BGP,MPLS,TE
2. Of the Top 50 biggest Operators in the world which operators are not
using equipment from the vendor in question?

 If you are looking for investment protection , smooth evolution ,
reliability cost-effective products think again ?

What happened to the 7200s , now the 12K and whats next after CRS

In 2011 you can do your research which were the top 2 vendors in the SP
market.

I am not trying to initiate a heated debate here as I know all of us are
Cisco Sales Engineers- Cisco did their job very well we do all the sales
for them - and a lot of us survive on Cisco sales or consulting

But my point is lets all study and understand technologies so that one day
if we will be making decisions as advisors for our companies our decisions
will be based on selecting best products that suits your needs and pocket.
Big companies dont just buy equipment they spend month and month testing
this equipent irregardless of price.

Lets not generalise based on the IP dispute story from long time ago which
was a marketing gimic. I have spend the last 10yrs of my career working
with Cisco, Juniper, Huawei,Alcatel products and made my own conclusion.

Companies investing a lot of money in R&D will lead the way in the next two
decades

Lets pull our sleves and start studying not just cram a few commands. CCIE
is the beginning it takes you to the right job right salary if you are luck
but a lot of you will agree with me not all CCIE are the best engineers in
the world. Its more about passion.

End of day technology is the same BGP is BGP, MPLS is MPLS in Mars or
Earth. It doesnt matter wether its a Juniper,Huawei or ZTE box once you
choose to master and understand wherever you go it will be part of you,
The last thing you need is to memorise some commands and become an IOS God
next XR is out you have to start allover again.

Just my two sense

On 14 May 2012 14:48, marc abel <marcabel_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> The Chinese are already stealing everyone's IP, the last thing I want is
> them designing/manufacturing my firewalls next.
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Tony Singh <mothafungla_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ahh who are we.
> > Embroiled in reverse engineering catos somewhere and bugs were the same.
> > They have ripped most uk telcos to shreds since they've arrived here
> > undercutting everyone the company is backed by the chinese government for
> > Christ sakes so there not likely to fail.
> > I'm surprised the uk government have made it so easy for them to enter
> the
> > playing field, thousands of jobs at Ericsson and Fujitsu have gone as a
> > result of their undercut products which SP's seem to love (DSLAM VDSL
> VoIP
> > switches to name a few is where they are winning the business)
> > They have 500 + engineers waiting on faults soon as they get one, which
> is
> > where they are in a good position low labour costs etc, but products are
> > buggy as hell but in time it will improve I'm sure.
> >
> > BR
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone on 3
> >
> > On 14 May 2012, at 11:43, Jay McMickle <jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Changed the subject line to be more appropriate.
> > >
> > > You make a very passive point. I'm on the fence about this, as I feel I
> > bleed Cisco. Having pursued a dream for so long, it only makes sense
> that I
> > defend their honor and show pride for my persistence.
> > >
> > > But, again, you make a good point in that why not allow other vendors
> > attempt to catch up. But, as Brian stated, they have internal
> intelligence,
> > and a never ending flow of cash to put into it. There have been many that
> > have attempted, but I don't think Google or anyone else starting today in
> > this game, is a near threat. Huawei is about the only upcoming potential
> > threat right now. See the link below.
> > >
> > > Now get back to labbing! Where are the questions and issues? ;)
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://m.networkworld.com/news/2011/100511-cisco-huawei-251645.html?mm_ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dhuawei%2Band%2Bcisco%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari#mobify-bookmark
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Jay McMickle- CCIE #35355 (R&S)
> > > Sent from iJay
> > >
> > > On May 14, 2012, at 4:11 AM, Geert Nijs <Geert.Nijs_at_simac.be> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Whats all the fuss about ?
> > >> Companies like Google, Facebook, they are starting to have a market
> > value equal to Cisco or even larger. Isn't it logical that they start to
> > develop their own switches, servers or whatever...
> > >> I would too, if I had the same means. But the reality is just that
> most
> > of us don't work in such a large company. So what is the impact for us ?
> > -If- Google or Facebook go public with their technology, it is just
> another
> > network vendor we have to choose from.....
> > >>
> > >> Reg,
> > >> G
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > Of john matijevic
> > >> Sent: zondag 13 mei 2012 22:05
> > >> To: bdennis_at_ine.com
> > >> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > >> Subject: Re: INE OER free class!
> > >>
> > >> Interesting Article,
> > >> However, just because you may be able to get cheaper hardware in third
> > world countries, doesn't mean you will get the same level or service and
> > support as you do here in the United States. I wonder how much capital of
> > these foreign companies goes towards Research and Development. And again
> > how about support and training, I haven't seen any programs come out of
> > China or Taiwan, but if they will be selling on a large scale such as
> Cisco
> > and Juniper, you would think that there would be a training program in
> > place. The reality I would assume is that Micosoft, Google, Amazon and
> > others I am willing to bet have in place Cisco gear, perhaps a test
> network
> > that would include other equpment, but would be hard to say if they will
> go
> > mainstream. But no doubt that Virtualization has become common place
> among
> > companies, I see many companies now consolidating servers, and hardware.
> > >>
> > >> just my .02 cents,
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 5/13/12, Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com> wrote:
> > >>> Google is building their own switches. It's really scary for vendors
> > >>> when the biggest customers are building their own equipment.
> Building
> > >>> your own can mean getting line rate 10gb ports for a small fraction
> of
> > >>> what you would pay from a vendor. Here is an article about a former
> > >>> Google employee who helps companies with projects like these.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/03/google-microsoft-network-
> > >>> gear/
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
> > >>> bdennis_at_ine.com
> > >>>
> > >>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > >>> http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 05/13/2012 10:05 AM, john matijevic wrote:
> > >>>> Good Afternoon Brian,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Interesting link, if you have the presentation can you please send
> my
> > >>>> way. It did not mention what type of OpenFlow switch google is
> using,
> > >>>> would be nice to see the details of how this is implemented.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Regards,
> > >>>> John
> > >>>> On 5/13/12, Brian Dennis<bdennis_at_ine.com> wrote:
> > >>>>> Centralized control, be it PfR or something similar, is the future.
> > >>>>> Ironically you probably use a network that has centralized control
> > >>>>> without knowing. Here is an interesting article in regards to how
> > >>>>> Google is using Openflow:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4371179/Google-describes-its
> > >>>>> -OpenFlow-network
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> If anyone is interested in the slides from Google's presentation
> let
> > >>>>> me know.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
> > >>>>> bdennis_at_ine.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > >>>>> http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 05/12/2012 06:34 PM, Radioactive Frog wrote:
> > >>>>>> I was wondering,
> > >>>>>> is there anybody using OEF/pfr in production yet?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> -frog
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 3:07 AM, Yuri Bank<yuribank_at_gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> smart thinking.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Having a strong understanding of the core technologies (Layer2,
> > >>>>>>> IP, MPLS, OSPF, BGP, etc......) is what will earn you a pass. Not
> > >>>>>>> being an expert in some edge-case feature of IOS. And when you
> > >>>>>>> think about it, knowing the core technologies is what will carry
> > >>>>>>> over with you to new platforms, other vendors equipment, and
> > >>>>>>> really benefit you in the long run.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> with that said, oer/pfr is a very interesting topic and fun to
> > >>>>>>> work with.
> > >>>>>>> But purely on a academic level.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> just my 2 cents
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> -yuri
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 8:17 AM, marc abel<marcabel_at_gmail.com>
> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I registered. We will see, I may not want to burn a whole day
> the
> > >>>>>>>> day before my travel on a 3 point question.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Jay
> > >>>>>>>> McMickle<jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com
> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I noticed the annoucement went out about 10 minutes ago. Get
> > >>>>>>>>> you some!
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> http://www.ine.com/live/
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Sign up-
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> http://ine.us2.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=4ae1c37781d90125b7f09dd
> > >>>>>>> c5&id=c4911
> > >>>>>>>> f7c29
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> **** **
> > >>>>>>>>> *FREE vSeminar Wednesday, May 16th, 2012* Instructed by 5xCCIE
> > >>>>>>>>> #2210, Brian Dennis**** *Course Topic:** CCIE R&S Technologies*
> > >>>>>>>>> *Performance Routing/Optimized Edge Routing (PfR/OER)*
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> You will receive an email notification reminder of the event,
> > >>>>>>>>> but you
> > >>>>>>> are
> > >>>>>>>>> welcome
> > >>>>>>>>> to visit the live link to view the vSeminar commencing at
> > >>>>>>>>> approximately *9AM PST US / GMT -7 Hours*.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> *Bookmark the vSeminar Live Link
> > >>>>>>>> ;<
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> http://ine.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=4ae1c37781d90125b7f0
> > >>>>>>> 9ddc5&id=
> > >>>>>>>> 49c0ccc8c5&e=17e940d74c>
> > >>>>>>>>> *****
> > >>>>>>>>> *Sign Up Now for Our Live
> > >>>>>>>> vSeminar!<
> > >>>>>>>>
> http://ine.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=4ae1c37781d90125b7f0
> > >>>>>>>> 9d
> > >>>>>>>> dc5&id=1bfba185cc&e=17e940d74c>
> > >>>>>>>>> *
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>>>>> Jay McMickle- CCIE #35355
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
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Received on Mon May 14 2012 - 20:20:37 ART