Re: OT: Other vendors

Edmore well said.

There are a few points you made which I don't agree with but I won't go into them as it will open up a whole new can of worms.

Your point on R&D is valid. Do you know which company is the biggest contributor towards R&D percentage wise based on their revenue ?

CCIE # 23962 (SP)

Sent from my iPhone

On 14 May 2012, at 8:20 PM, Edmore Chingwena <chingwenaed_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I think this is out of topic , This forum is for people persuing CCIE study
> and those of us who want to learn some key technology issues and different
> vendor implementations.
>
> I have been a member of group sudy for a few years a passive listener to
> every multicast feed. The reason why i make it a habit to read group study
> is not because I want to read the CCIE suscess stories but am pationate
> about understanding technology and each vendors implementation and how it
> matches the general RFC guideless.
>
> Initially didnt want to respond to this duscussion but i want you guys to
> check the following
>
> 1. Currently which vendor is the number one in the mobile IP backhaul
> market ?
> -What are the key technologies in the mobile backhaul- IS-IS ,BGP,MPLS,TE
> 2. Of the Top 50 biggest Operators in the world which operators are not
> using equipment from the vendor in question?
>
> If you are looking for investment protection , smooth evolution ,
> reliability cost-effective products think again ?
>
> What happened to the 7200s , now the 12K and whats next after CRS
>
> In 2011 you can do your research which were the top 2 vendors in the SP
> market.
>
> I am not trying to initiate a heated debate here as I know all of us are
> Cisco Sales Engineers- Cisco did their job very well we do all the sales
> for them - and a lot of us survive on Cisco sales or consulting
>
> But my point is lets all study and understand technologies so that one day
> if we will be making decisions as advisors for our companies our decisions
> will be based on selecting best products that suits your needs and pocket.
> Big companies dont just buy equipment they spend month and month testing
> this equipent irregardless of price.
>
> Lets not generalise based on the IP dispute story from long time ago which
> was a marketing gimic. I have spend the last 10yrs of my career working
> with Cisco, Juniper, Huawei,Alcatel products and made my own conclusion.
>
> Companies investing a lot of money in R&D will lead the way in the next two
> decades
>
> Lets pull our sleves and start studying not just cram a few commands. CCIE
> is the beginning it takes you to the right job right salary if you are luck
> but a lot of you will agree with me not all CCIE are the best engineers in
> the world. Its more about passion.
>
> End of day technology is the same BGP is BGP, MPLS is MPLS in Mars or
> Earth. It doesnt matter wether its a Juniper,Huawei or ZTE box once you
> choose to master and understand wherever you go it will be part of you,
> The last thing you need is to memorise some commands and become an IOS God
> next XR is out you have to start allover again.
>
> Just my two sense
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> On 14 May 2012 14:48, marc abel <marcabel_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Chinese are already stealing everyone's IP, the last thing I want is
>> them designing/manufacturing my firewalls next.
>>
>> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Tony Singh <mothafungla_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahh who are we.
>>> Embroiled in reverse engineering catos somewhere and bugs were the same.
>>> They have ripped most uk telcos to shreds since they've arrived here
>>> undercutting everyone the company is backed by the chinese government for
>>> Christ sakes so there not likely to fail.
>>> I'm surprised the uk government have made it so easy for them to enter
>> the
>>> playing field, thousands of jobs at Ericsson and Fujitsu have gone as a
>>> result of their undercut products which SP's seem to love (DSLAM VDSL
>> VoIP
>>> switches to name a few is where they are winning the business)
>>> They have 500 + engineers waiting on faults soon as they get one, which
>> is
>>> where they are in a good position low labour costs etc, but products are
>>> buggy as hell but in time it will improve I'm sure.
>>>
>>> BR
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone on 3
>>>
>>> On 14 May 2012, at 11:43, Jay McMickle <jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Changed the subject line to be more appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> You make a very passive point. I'm on the fence about this, as I feel I
>>> bleed Cisco. Having pursued a dream for so long, it only makes sense
>> that I
>>> defend their honor and show pride for my persistence.
>>>>
>>>> But, again, you make a good point in that why not allow other vendors
>>> attempt to catch up. But, as Brian stated, they have internal
>> intelligence,
>>> and a never ending flow of cash to put into it. There have been many that
>>> have attempted, but I don't think Google or anyone else starting today in
>>> this game, is a near threat. Huawei is about the only upcoming potential
>>> threat right now. See the link below.
>>>>
>>>> Now get back to labbing! Where are the questions and issues? ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> http://m.networkworld.com/news/2011/100511-cisco-huawei-251645.html?mm_ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dhuawei%2Band%2Bcisco%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari#mobify-bookmark
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Jay McMickle- CCIE #35355 (R&S)
>>>> Sent from iJay
>>>>
>>>> On May 14, 2012, at 4:11 AM, Geert Nijs <Geert.Nijs_at_simac.be> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Whats all the fuss about ?
>>>>> Companies like Google, Facebook, they are starting to have a market
>>> value equal to Cisco or even larger. Isn't it logical that they start to
>>> develop their own switches, servers or whatever...
>>>>> I would too, if I had the same means. But the reality is just that
>> most
>>> of us don't work in such a large company. So what is the impact for us ?
>>> -If- Google or Facebook go public with their technology, it is just
>> another
>>> network vendor we have to choose from.....
>>>>>
>>>>> Reg,
>>>>> G
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>>> Of john matijevic
>>>>> Sent: zondag 13 mei 2012 22:05
>>>>> To: bdennis_at_ine.com
>>>>> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: INE OER free class!
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting Article,
>>>>> However, just because you may be able to get cheaper hardware in third
>>> world countries, doesn't mean you will get the same level or service and
>>> support as you do here in the United States. I wonder how much capital of
>>> these foreign companies goes towards Research and Development. And again
>>> how about support and training, I haven't seen any programs come out of
>>> China or Taiwan, but if they will be selling on a large scale such as
>> Cisco
>>> and Juniper, you would think that there would be a training program in
>>> place. The reality I would assume is that Micosoft, Google, Amazon and
>>> others I am willing to bet have in place Cisco gear, perhaps a test
>> network
>>> that would include other equpment, but would be hard to say if they will
>> go
>>> mainstream. But no doubt that Virtualization has become common place
>> among
>>> companies, I see many companies now consolidating servers, and hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> just my .02 cents,
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/13/12, Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Google is building their own switches. It's really scary for vendors
>>>>>> when the biggest customers are building their own equipment.
>> Building
>>>>>> your own can mean getting line rate 10gb ports for a small fraction
>> of
>>>>>> what you would pay from a vendor. Here is an article about a former
>>>>>> Google employee who helps companies with projects like these.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/03/google-microsoft-network-
>>>>>> gear/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
>>>>>> bdennis_at_ine.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>>>> http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/13/2012 10:05 AM, john matijevic wrote:
>>>>>>> Good Afternoon Brian,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting link, if you have the presentation can you please send
>> my
>>>>>>> way. It did not mention what type of OpenFlow switch google is
>> using,
>>>>>>> would be nice to see the details of how this is implemented.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>> On 5/13/12, Brian Dennis<bdennis_at_ine.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Centralized control, be it PfR or something similar, is the future.
>>>>>>>> Ironically you probably use a network that has centralized control
>>>>>>>> without knowing. Here is an interesting article in regards to how
>>>>>>>> Google is using Openflow:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4371179/Google-describes-its
>>>>>>>> -OpenFlow-network
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If anyone is interested in the slides from Google's presentation
>> let
>>>>>>>> me know.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
>>>>>>>> bdennis_at_ine.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>>>>>> http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 05/12/2012 06:34 PM, Radioactive Frog wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I was wondering,
>>>>>>>>> is there anybody using OEF/pfr in production yet?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -frog
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 3:07 AM, Yuri Bank<yuribank_at_gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> smart thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Having a strong understanding of the core technologies (Layer2,
>>>>>>>>>> IP, MPLS, OSPF, BGP, etc......) is what will earn you a pass. Not
>>>>>>>>>> being an expert in some edge-case feature of IOS. And when you
>>>>>>>>>> think about it, knowing the core technologies is what will carry
>>>>>>>>>> over with you to new platforms, other vendors equipment, and
>>>>>>>>>> really benefit you in the long run.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> with that said, oer/pfr is a very interesting topic and fun to
>>>>>>>>>> work with.
>>>>>>>>>> But purely on a academic level.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> just my 2 cents
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -yuri
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 8:17 AM, marc abel<marcabel_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I registered. We will see, I may not want to burn a whole day
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> day before my travel on a 3 point question.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Jay
>>>>>>>>>>> McMickle<jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I noticed the annoucement went out about 10 minutes ago. Get
>>>>>>>>>>>> you some!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.ine.com/live/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sign up-
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://ine.us2.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=4ae1c37781d90125b7f09dd
>>>>>>>>>> c5&id=c4911
>>>>>>>>>>> f7c29
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> **** **
>>>>>>>>>>>> *FREE vSeminar Wednesday, May 16th, 2012* Instructed by 5xCCIE
>>>>>>>>>>>> #2210, Brian Dennis**** *Course Topic:** CCIE R&S Technologies*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Performance Routing/Optimized Edge Routing (PfR/OER)*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You will receive an email notification reminder of the event,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but you
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome
>>>>>>>>>>>> to visit the live link to view the vSeminar commencing at
>>>>>>>>>>>> approximately *9AM PST US / GMT -7 Hours*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Bookmark the vSeminar Live Link
>>>>>>>>>>> ;<
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://ine.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=4ae1c37781d90125b7f0
>>>>>>>>>> 9ddc5&id=
>>>>>>>>>>> 49c0ccc8c5&e=17e940d74c>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *****
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sign Up Now for Our Live
>>>>>>>>>>> vSeminar!<
>>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://ine.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=4ae1c37781d90125b7f0
>>>>>>>>>>> 9d
>>>>>>>>>>> dc5&id=1bfba185cc&e=17e940d74c>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jay McMickle- CCIE #35355
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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Received on Mon May 14 2012 - 22:58:42 ART