Re: PhD vs CCIE

Has this horse been beaten enough yet?
JB

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:

> Hi Paul, and welcome to the discussion. The point is these are two minor
> examples and did Terry really "discover" Eigrp. I think he would be the
> first
> to tell you it was a team effort.
>
> The point we are shifting from is that CCIEs are not "unique" but PhDs
> have to
> submit a unique piece of work. The Cisco CCIE Lab exam is looking for the
> same
> set of answers or almost all the same set of answers from candidates who
> pass
> a PhD is not.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> To: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>; Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; ccielab
> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 20:44
> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>
>
> That was the point I was looking for.
> -
> aul Negron
> CIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
> enior Technical Instructor
>
> > From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> Reply-To: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:25:44 -0800
> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
> Cc: <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>, <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>,
> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>
> I don't know if any were PHDs that designed Cisco's equipment. Terry
> Slattery (CCIE 1026) wrote major or a portion of Eigrp, and i did not see
> a
> Dr. in front of his name, but he is a CCIE. George Morton who was a PHD
> before he attended my class and got his CCIE (Dual now) has a much better
> job than when he only had his PHD. May be you spent 30K to get your CCIE
> (And that is on the expensive side) but some spend 100s of thousands to
> get
> their PHDs, and i don't see a huge difference in salary.
> But i guess we are both looking at it from different angles.
> The guy who has a M5 BMW will always tell you that he kills Porsche turbo,
> and vice versa. But the truth of the matter is that it all depends on the
> *
> driver*. When i look at Bill Gates and the top 50 richest people in the
> world including Steve Jobs, i don't see Dr. in front of their names, but
> then again i don't see a CCIE number after their name.
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>
> > No not really Narbik. The difference is that PhDs have to be unique -
> > CCIEs dont we all sit the same exam - or all of one of a number of exams.
> > There are more PhDs because there are more PhD students worldwide than
> > CCIEs. PhDs are supposed to move technological or other boundaries in
> some
> > way - when in the last ten (10) years have we seen a unique piece of work
> > from a CCIE that did that - who designs Ciscos equipment - CCIEs - I dont
> > think so.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> > To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
> > CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
> ccielab
> > <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:55
> > Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
> >
> > BTW, so you see that number of CCIEs in the world has nothing to do with
> > the value of the cert. If it did, PHDs will have no value at all, i bet
> > there are 10 times more PHDs than CCIEs. A bad point.
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Thats a nice question Narbikk. The answer is no but for one reason -
> PhDs
> >> are awarded by many universities but CCIEs are only awarded by one
> company.
> >> Is the question therefore do we really need so many types of CCIE or
> could
> >> we consolidate them into a more generalist CCIE. Doesnt the whole
> concept
> >> of UC for example mean for example that we need a more generalist sort
> of
> >> CCIE again ie what CCIE discipline doesnt have a high proportion of
> Routing
> >> and Switching ? Couldnt we revert back to a three day CCIE where you did
> >> the core as Routing and Switching and then the other two days in the
> >> specialist areas - security, wireless, service provider, etc
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> >> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
> >> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
> >> ccielab <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> >> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:18
> >> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
> >>
> >> Few years ago we had one or two tracks, these days we have more tracks.
> >> Do we know the number of people who have their PHDs?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Joe,
> >>>
> >>> Agreed and why do you think there are now 26,000 CCIEs against 10,000 a
> >>> few
> >>> years ago - even certification is a money making business - I
> estimated I
> >>> spent around $30000 on getting my CCIE - between courses , labs, exams,
> >>> bootcamps , time of work - and I didnt pass it first time. I think
> there
> >>> is
> >>> only a 20% first time pass rate now and that means a lot of money to
> >>> someone.
> >>>
> >>> And by the way I dont mind people making money out of me - even on
> >>> certification as long as I get value for money.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Bill
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
> >>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
> >>> ccielab
> >>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> >>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:34
> >>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ib d bet dollars to cents 10,000+ of the 17,320 R/S guys are
> emeritusb&
> >>>
> >>> If Cisco didnb t do that the cert would look like it isnb t as valuable
> >>> as
> >>> it was in 1999 and they couldnb t make as much money selling training
> >>> for it
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Bill6521 [mailto:bil6521_at_netscape.net]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:29 AM
> >>> To: Joseph L. Brunner; jazzsunn_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> >>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Joseph,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Read my article in CCIE Flyer. Nor did they break it down by age or sex
> >>> or
> >>> nationality.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Bill
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
> >>> To: jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>;
> >>> ccielab
> >>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> >>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:22
> >>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
> >>>
> >>> Notice they don't break down how many "Emeritus"
> >>>
> >>> LOL
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: jazzsunn_at_gmail.com [mailto:jazzsunn_at_gmail.com]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:15 AM
> >>> To: Joseph L. Brunner; Bill6521; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> >>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
> >>>
> >>> According to LTRCC-3000.pdf (updated 1/9/12, available on
> >>> ciscolivevirtual.com),
> >>> there are 26,634 currently certified CCIEs.
> >>> RS - 17,320
> >>> Sec - 3794
> >>> SP - 2885
> >>> Voice - 2291
> >>> SAN - 170
> >>> Wireless - 93
> >>> CCDE - 63
> >>> SP Ops - 11
> >>> CCAr - 7
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent via BlackBerry
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
> >>> Sender: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
> >>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:07:02
> >>> To: Bill6521<bil6521_at_netscape.net>;
> >>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> >>> Reply-To: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
> >>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
> >>>
> >>> No there are far less CCIE's than that - many older lions are retiring
> >>> from
> >>> the
> >>> business.
> >>>
> >>> Of that number how many are current on today's technologies?
> >>>
> >>> Don't sell yourself short - I had a job req out at a client in 2009 for
> >>> a CCIE
> >>> at $225,000 or so - the first 50 guys we interviewed could not explain
> >>> how
> >>> DHCP
> >>> worked :) (DoRa for those of you that know)
> >>>
> >>> "how many good ones"
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> >>> Bill6521
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:57 AM
> >>> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> >>> Subject: Fwd: PhD vs CCIE
> >>>
> >>> Hi Guys,
> >>>
> >>> I think we are all missing the point here the discussion from my point
> >>> of view
> >>> is "employability" and here is my perspective. Today I understand there
> >>> are
> >>> over
> >>> 30,000 CCIEs thats three times what there was a few years ago and even
> >>> 7,000 more then when I got my number. Gone are the days when employers
> >>> would
> >>> be
> >>> lucky about getting one CCIE and we were literally regarded as "network
> >>> gods".
> >>> We are competing against "each other" and in a highly competitive world
> >>> - even as CCIEs. In that competitive world you have to give yourself an
> >>> "edge"
> >>> a something extra - what I would suggest is dont just bank on getting
> >>> employed
> >>> because you are a CCIE - and dont forget some off us are also getting
> >>> employed
> >>> because we have track records as well as being CCIEs. Most employment
> >>> agents/HR
> >>> departments do a word trawl in the first instance and the more edge you
> >>> have
> >>> the
> >>> more likely you have to move to the next stage of interview etc thats
> >>> what
> >>> these
> >>> certifications do for you - and dont also be a one trick pony
> >>> - consider doing a JNCIE or HP Master ASE as well as another CCIE.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Narbik Kocharians
> >> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> >> *www.MicronicsTraining.com*
> >> Sr. Technical Instructor
> >> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >> Training & Remote Racks available
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Narbik Kocharians
> > *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > Training & Remote Racks available
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> *Narbik Kocharians
> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> Sr. Technical Instructor
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training & Remote Racks available
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Tue Mar 06 2012 - 15:50:48 ART