Re: PhD vs CCIE

I think we're shifting from someone tangible to something more
philosophical....

Can you be a PhD with a globally unique project and still turn out to be
an idiot? Absolutely. Can you be a CCIE with a high school diploma and
still be awesome? Absolutely.

No matter what specifics we are talking about, a CCIE, a JNCIE, a CCDE,
a CISSP, a PhD, yadda, yadda, yadda... They are all ACCOMPLISHMENTS.
Any single accomplishment doesn't make you great forever. Ask
Milli-Vanilli. :)

What you do to grow yourself in an ongoing method is what makes you both
unique and better than those around you. It's a personal choice and a
personal goal, no matter how you slice it. So you want to keep a job?
Or get a better job? Awesome! Figure out what makes you better than
other candidates and highlight it and/or accomplish it. If you find a
deficiency in your makeup, fix it. But grow! Evolve!

Can we be done now? I have things to do. And clearly this has broken
up into camps of people who have opinions, which very much like other
unmentioned body parts, everyone has and likely shouldn't always flaunt
out in the open. ;)

Scott

On 3/6/12 2:53 PM, Bill6521 wrote:
> Hi Paul, and welcome to the discussion. The point is these are two minor
> examples and did Terry really "discover" Eigrp. I think he would be the first
> to tell you it was a team effort.
>
> The point we are shifting from is that CCIEs are not "unique" but PhDs have to
> submit a unique piece of work. The Cisco CCIE Lab exam is looking for the same
> set of answers or almost all the same set of answers from candidates who pass
> a PhD is not.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> To: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>; Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; ccielab
> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 20:44
> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>
>
> That was the point I was looking for.
> -
> aul Negron
> CIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
> enior Technical Instructor
>
>> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> Reply-To: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:25:44 -0800
> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
> Cc: <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>, <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>,
> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>
> I don't know if any were PHDs that designed Cisco's equipment. Terry
> Slattery (CCIE 1026) wrote major or a portion of Eigrp, and i did not see a
> Dr. in front of his name, but he is a CCIE. George Morton who was a PHD
> before he attended my class and got his CCIE (Dual now) has a much better
> job than when he only had his PHD. May be you spent 30K to get your CCIE
> (And that is on the expensive side) but some spend 100s of thousands to get
> their PHDs, and i don't see a huge difference in salary.
> But i guess we are both looking at it from different angles.
> The guy who has a M5 BMW will always tell you that he kills Porsche turbo,
> and vice versa. But the truth of the matter is that it all depends on the *
> driver*. When i look at Bill Gates and the top 50 richest people in the
> world including Steve Jobs, i don't see Dr. in front of their names, but
> then again i don't see a CCIE number after their name.
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> No not really Narbik. The difference is that PhDs have to be unique -
>> CCIEs dont we all sit the same exam - or all of one of a number of exams.
>> There are more PhDs because there are more PhD students worldwide than
>> CCIEs. PhDs are supposed to move technological or other boundaries in some
>> way - when in the last ten (10) years have we seen a unique piece of work
>> from a CCIE that did that - who designs Ciscos equipment - CCIEs - I dont
>> think so.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; ccielab
>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:55
>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>
>> BTW, so you see that number of CCIEs in the world has nothing to do with
>> the value of the cert. If it did, PHDs will have no value at all, i bet
>> there are 10 times more PHDs than CCIEs. A bad point.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Thats a nice question Narbikk. The answer is no but for one reason - PhDs
>>> are awarded by many universities but CCIEs are only awarded by one
> company.
>>> Is the question therefore do we really need so many types of CCIE or could
>>> we consolidate them into a more generalist CCIE. Doesnt the whole concept
>>> of UC for example mean for example that we need a more generalist sort of
>>> CCIE again ie what CCIE discipline doesnt have a high proportion of
> Routing
>>> and Switching ? Couldnt we revert back to a three day CCIE where you did
>>> the core as Routing and Switching and then the other two days in the
>>> specialist areas - security, wireless, service provider, etc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>>> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
>>> ccielab <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:18
>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>
>>> Few years ago we had one or two tracks, these days we have more tracks.
>>> Do we know the number of people who have their PHDs?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>
>>>> Agreed and why do you think there are now 26,000 CCIEs against 10,000 a
>>>> few
>>>> years ago - even certification is a money making business - I estimated I
>>>> spent around $30000 on getting my CCIE - between courses , labs, exams,
>>>> bootcamps , time of work - and I didnt pass it first time. I think there
>>>> is
>>>> only a 20% first time pass rate now and that means a lot of money to
>>>> someone.
>>>>
>>>> And by the way I dont mind people making money out of me - even on
>>>> certification as long as I get value for money.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
>>>> ccielab
>>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:34
>>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ib d bet dollars to cents 10,000+ of the 17,320 R/S guys are emeritusb&
>>>>
>>>> If Cisco didnb t do that the cert would look like it isnb t as valuable
>>>> as
>>>> it was in 1999 and they couldnb t make as much money selling training
>>>> for it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Bill6521 [mailto:bil6521_at_netscape.net]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:29 AM
>>>> To: Joseph L. Brunner; jazzsunn_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Joseph,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read my article in CCIE Flyer. Nor did they break it down by age or sex
>>>> or
>>>> nationality.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>> To: jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>;
>>>> ccielab
>>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:22
>>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>
>>>> Notice they don't break down how many "Emeritus"
>>>>
>>>> LOL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: jazzsunn_at_gmail.com [mailto:jazzsunn_at_gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:15 AM
>>>> To: Joseph L. Brunner; Bill6521; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>
>>>> According to LTRCC-3000.pdf (updated 1/9/12, available on
>>>> ciscolivevirtual.com),
>>>> there are 26,634 currently certified CCIEs.
>>>> RS - 17,320
>>>> Sec - 3794
>>>> SP - 2885
>>>> Voice - 2291
>>>> SAN - 170
>>>> Wireless - 93
>>>> CCDE - 63
>>>> SP Ops - 11
>>>> CCAr - 7
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent via BlackBerry
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>> Sender: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
>>>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:07:02
>>>> To: Bill6521<bil6521_at_netscape.net>;
>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>> Reply-To: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>
>>>> No there are far less CCIE's than that - many older lions are retiring
>>>> from
>>>> the
>>>> business.
>>>>
>>>> Of that number how many are current on today's technologies?
>>>>
>>>> Don't sell yourself short - I had a job req out at a client in 2009 for
>>>> a CCIE
>>>> at $225,000 or so - the first 50 guys we interviewed could not explain
>>>> how
>>>> DHCP
>>>> worked :) (DoRa for those of you that know)
>>>>
>>>> "how many good ones"
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bill6521
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:57 AM
>>>> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>> Subject: Fwd: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>
>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I think we are all missing the point here the discussion from my point
>>>> of view
>>>> is "employability" and here is my perspective. Today I understand there
>>>> are
>>>> over
>>>> 30,000 CCIEs thats three times what there was a few years ago and even
>>>> 7,000 more then when I got my number. Gone are the days when employers
>>>> would
>>>> be
>>>> lucky about getting one CCIE and we were literally regarded as "network
>>>> gods".
>>>> We are competing against "each other" and in a highly competitive world
>>>> - even as CCIEs. In that competitive world you have to give yourself an
>>>> "edge"
>>>> a something extra - what I would suggest is dont just bank on getting
>>>> employed
>>>> because you are a CCIE - and dont forget some off us are also getting
>>>> employed
>>>> because we have track records as well as being CCIEs. Most employment
>>>> agents/HR
>>>> departments do a word trawl in the first instance and the more edge you
>>>> have
>>>> the
>>>> more likely you have to move to the next stage of interview etc thats
>>>> what
>>>> these
>>>> certifications do for you - and dont also be a one trick pony
>>>> - consider doing a JNCIE or HP Master ASE as well as another CCIE.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Narbik Kocharians
>>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com*
>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>> Training & Remote Racks available
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> *Narbik Kocharians
>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>> Training & Remote Racks available
>>
>>
>
> --
> *Narbik Kocharians
> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> Sr. Technical Instructor
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training & Remote Racks available
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Tue Mar 06 2012 - 16:58:00 ART