RE: OT: CCDE - how to study and chances to pass it

Guess they can't call it the "Russ White networking design test" anymore.

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Marko Milivojevic
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 9:04 AM
To: Antonio Soares
Cc: Ronnie Angello; Scott Morris; <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
Subject: Re: OT: CCDE - how to study and chances to pass it

Almost every CCAr. The latest one to leave was Russ White.

--
Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
Free CCIE Training: http://bit.ly/vLecture
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:: Sent from my phone. Apologies for errors and brevity. ::
On Aug 10, 2011, at 7:28, "Antonio Soares" <amsoares_at_netcabo.pt> wrote:
> I'm curious, who are those that left Cisco ?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Antonio Soares, CCIE #18473 (R&S/SP)
> amsoares_at_netcabo.pt
> http://www.ccie18473.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf 
> Of Ronnie Angello
> Sent: quarta-feira, 10 de Agosto de 2011 13:49
> To: Scott Morris
> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: OT: CCDE - how to study and chances to pass it
> 
> Scott,
> 
> Is the October delivery of the exam going to be the revised version, 
> or can you even share that info?  The cl10 Techtorial hinted at some 
> changes, like the reduction of the number of work models (scenarios) 
> from 6 to 4, among other things.  I also recall Russ mentioning that 
> some technologies (IS-IS,
> IPv6?) were being removed as well...  Since then I have heard 
> conflicting information from the CCDE team, and it has been over a 
> year, so I'm not sure what to expect.
> 
> I would prefer to wait until the exam is updated to try again (4th 
> time /sigh), so any insight would be much appreciated.  Of course with 
> much of the original team now having left Cisco, and little being 
> known about how the cert will be made more valuable in the industry, 
> it raises a lot of questions about the future of the CCDE.  I'm kind 
> of on the fence about continuing to pursue it at this point, but I do 
> have hope now that there is a new team, fresh content, etc...
> 
> Thanks,
> Ronnie
> On Aug 10, 2011 8:23 AM, "Scott Morris" <swm_at_emanon.com> wrote:
>> I would not recommend reading 50 books. You'll be bored out of your 
>> mind. Pick some. Probably doesn't matter which ones. But go through 
>> them, particularly ones with case studies and read them for the "why"
>> part about what was chosen.
>> 
>> It's ok to argue with the books (don't expect much response though).
>> The idea is to question until you can come to an understanding based 
>> upon what criteria was laid out to you why they picked the path they did.
>> 
>> That's the whole thing about the CCDE lab. In network design, there 
>> are many plausible answers. However, there are better answers based 
>> on business criteria or financial/political ones. And that's what you 
>> have to sift through.
>> 
>> The hard part both for the exam and for recommending reading anything 
>> is that this is geared towards (and says on the description pages) 
>> people with 8-10 years experience. You really can't substitute
experience.
>> You can get lucky sometimes, but statistically it's not easy to do 
>> for the whole exam.
>> 
>> But reading for the "why" rather than reading for learning a 
>> technology is something that takes more time and a bit of practice.
>> 
>> Is the CCIE SP a path for the CCDE? Not really, although it exposes 
>> you to more technologies that you can start thinking about in a 
>> design environment. And once you know HOW they work, then it's part 
>> way to figuring out WHY to use or not use a particular set.
>> 
>> We had some long debates about what topics to put in or keep in the 
>> CCDE when revising it. And there will still be a mix that touches 
>> service provider as well as enterprise and commercial/small business. 
>> So know the technologies (how) and concentrate your reading on the 
>> when to use them (why).
>> 
>> HTH,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) 
>> #4713,
>> 
>> CCDE #2009::D, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIE-ER #102, CISSP, et al.
>> 
>> CCSI #21903, JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>> 
>> swm_at_emanon.com
>> 
>> 
>> Knowledge is power.
>> 
>> Power corrupts.
>> 
>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>> 
>> 
>> On 8/10/11 2:33 AM, Roger Pfdffli wrote:
>>> Hi Travis (and all the rest),
>>> 
>>> I agree but all the information regarding the SPv3 has been very 
>>> very helpful (and since I've also mentioned the SPv3 in my initial 
>>> post, I'm happy about the replies).
>>> 
>>> Now we know officially that at least INE will "fully" support the 
>>> new
> SPv3
>>> including rack rentals, workbooks, classes covering also IOS-XR. I'm 
>>> waiting since 1.5 year to hear such a thing and I've already lost 
>>> the
> hope
>>> that someone will ever support it, since (as mentioned earlier) just 
>>> a
> few
>>> weeks/months ago all vendors told that they will not support SPv3 at
all.
>>> So cool, the game is open again :-)
>>> 
>>> But now, regarding the CCDE (which I've asked for), I do agree with you.
>>> The link from Brian pointing to the very helpful and interesting 
>>> Blog
> from
>>> Petr, including all the reading stuff, does not fully answer my
question.
>>> I would also be very interested to hear from people who have 
>>> attended
> (and
>>> maybe also passed) the CCDE lab, how they have prepared. I think 
>>> (hope) that there is more strategy than just reading 50 books and 
>>> bring lots of experience. So please all CCDE's out there, let us know
your ideas!!
>>> 
>>> Personally I'm still not 100% sure which path to take, CCDE or SPv3, 
>>> and which one is "better" for the future because I somewhat have to 
>>> agree
> with
>>> the things Narbik said. There is not a very high demand after SPv3 
>>> and maybe it is more helpful to have "another" cert like CCDE 
>>> instead of multiple IE's (and I mean this from a technological and 
>>> financial point
> of
>>> view).
>>> 
>>> regards
>>> 
>>> Roger #23543
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10.08.11 08:13, "Travis Niedens" <niedentj_at_hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> This initially asked about the CCDE. I really have not seen any 
>>>> good
> help
>>>> for this other than "read all 17 Cisco books and memorize them". 
>>>> Can someone comment on how to actually pass the CCDE? I passed the 
>>>> written and want
> to
>>>> take a shot at the lab the next time it is available.
>>>> 
>>>> Travis
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
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