Re: OT (Hint: maybe on-topic if you need to need help)

Umm...

When groupstudy has gotten to the point where CCIE candidates won't post for
fear of the flames. That's a problem and always will be.

You tagged me in public Larry - I don't recall saying a word to you.

Now - I had comments about an awesome week with Narbik at a class I took
this week.

The experience was pretty awesome. Simple as that.

You know - you probably have a good idea what unicast is and if you wanted
to say something to me one-on-one, it works well.

You chose to make a public statement. So I'm replying in kind. Just as you
did to my posts.

I simply compared the experience to the other guys....

Now if anyone has another instructor who works this hard to beat stuff into
a CCIE student why not just mention the person or even the company?

You may have a dog in the race and you are associated with a few of the
companies or may have been - your business.

There are lots of up and coming CCIE Candidates who have litte to no idea of
what to expect from a CCIE Bootcamp.

Narbik didn't cover enabling a protocol by doing this and doing that... like
some of the guys might do. That's CCNP-ish. CCIE-ish is knowing how to
filter and how to troubleshoot when things don't go as expected.

He offered expert instruction on various filtering techniques, he offered
lots of meat and potatos on aspects of QoS, and other protocols - all in his
workbooks, except he taught at a whiteboard - each of the topics at which he
researched at a deeper level than most of the rest.

Sorry if I offend you...

Are you writing workbooks these days for one or more of the vendors in
question? If so, then dig deeper or go to class with ole Narbik and see
what he's doing differently. A few years ago I actually recommended that
idea... yep. If not, then don't take it personally.

Look - "If" you can get most of the same information from the DOC CD versus
the class or workbook - why buy the workbook in the first place?

Instead of applauding an instructor for taking the time to research a topic
and "prove" some of the issues that others have said work this way or that
way... we knock the guy down...

That's not right, is it?

I don't know you well enough to direct much of anything at you. Sorry, I
just don't.

FYI - If you really want to unicast, then unicast. It works both ways.

Now I can reply to every post one by one or if anyone wants to unicast me,
then do so - it's easy enough.

Darby

http://www.darbyslogs.blogspot.com

On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Larry H <larryh12203_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> Darby
> So now you are slamming CCIE's for staying active on the board? I take that
> personally. Most of us that have passed the lab and are still on Groupstudy
> are here to help candidates on their journey. Since we have successfully
> earned the certification, maybe we have something of value to offer.
>
> I have personally helped many CCIE candidates by responding privately to
> their requests for help so as to not clog up GS with unnecessary banter.
>
> Your comments on this whole thread can be construed as both a help and
> hinderance to other of your fellow CCIE candidates. Don't make other
> candidates think that the materials they have from other vendors are not
> sufficient to pass the lab. All of the major vendors have good materials
> that many people have used to pass the CCIE labs on their first try (I know
> one individual personally who passed the R&S and SP labs on the first try
> using materials from one of the *expert vendors).
>
> Please email me privately with any comments to this post as I don't want to
> clog up GS with any banter directed at me.
>
> Thanks
> Larry Hadrava
> CCIE #12203
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 1, 2011, at 6:23 PM, Darby Weaver <darby.weaver_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And to think - I thought I was a rather quiet low-key guy most of the
> time
> > who spends the better part of my day working and I daresay the better
> part
> > of my life doing the same...
> >
> > :)
> >
> > The only thing worse than crediting a guy like Narbik for a class which I
> > worked from 9am till 3am every day except Thursday - Thursday I did not
> go
> > to sleep till Friday until about 3pm actually - the only thing worse
> would
> > be giving old H.U. credit for ability yo stir brain cells.
> >
> > When is the last time any of you cared for a class given by an instructor
> > who could motivate you to stay awake and interested all week long given
> this
> > kind of deeply intensive material?
> >
> > Which class? Which instructor? When?
> >
> > Hmmm?
> >
> >
> > Who?
> >
> > Which one? Put the tail on the donkey and let's give these guys some
> > credit too.
> >
> >
> >
> > This is even with being given two very interestingly tough exams of the
> NMC
> > CheckIT / Cisco 360 Graded Labs... all in the same week (technically 3
> since
> > the Troubleshooting exam was in there).
> >
> > Which instructors stayed with the class some 12-15+ hours per day - every
> > day?
> >
> > Now while most of the class only got the 12-15 hour dog and pony show - I
> > started out with Narbik Sunday for some ~6 or so hours till 3am and it
> never
> > stopped - every night, one after the other.
> >
> > People need to know what to expect when we are investing time, money, and
> > opportunity to go a training class like this.
> >
> > While some of you have been on this list for years and years - others are
> > just getting started...
> >
> > If I told people I did INE's Workbook and the 2007/2008 edition of
> Narbik's
> > workbook side by side with the DOC CD at my finger tips - then they'd
> know
> > that the two cover the material nearly identically - sans the labout with
> > the DOC CD's format.
> >
> > Ok - So now a student can choose to buy one or the other but never EVER
> > needs both.
> >
> > Now if I tell you that the latest version of Narbik's workbooks and
> Bootcamp
> > version has more filtering tricks and a lot more explanation... then the
> > clear choice is going to be these new workbooks.
> >
> > Ooopss!!! Someone now needs to make a choice for one volume versus the
> > other.
> >
> > Now if/when I see Narbik's TS versus INE's TS, there is another choice to
> be
> > made.
> >
> > Same for the 360 Workbook versus the INE Workbook Vol II/III - If the
> Cisco
> > 360 has 35 labs full labs or lab plus troubleshooting and the INE has 20
> +
> > 10 (core labs) then a prospective buyer can make a choice.
> >
> > Now for Video - INE has much more sheer content. No doubt.
> >
> > However, if material is clear and succinct in the workbooks - anyone's -
> > um... why buy 2 or more vendors? Extra expense.
> >
> > Each vendor has out-done themselves year after year - my compliments. No
> > doubt.
> >
> > Now this game is in the last inning and we all need to know that we can
> > pretty much invest in a single vendor and be done with it.
> >
> > Umm... kinda funny how a lot of CCIE's are chiming in on the topic
> versus
> > candidates....
> >
> > Hint: Groupstudy is for those who need to earn the CCIE, give the new
> guys
> > and us old CCIE candidates some room to breath.
> >
> > I keep wondering if there is some super-mystery that keeps CCIE's hanging
> on
> > forever to re-learn frame relay or maybe spanning-tree or something.
> :)_._
> >
> > When I get a moment - I'll cover this topic in the CCIE Flyer maybe...
> some
> > people cover the blueprint and some go beyond.
> >
> >
> > Darby
> >
> > http://www.darbyslogs.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Travis Niedens <niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> It's probably some psychological issue dealing with a need for
> attention;
> >> its a vicious cycle that we have endured for years and Paul refuses to
> break
> >> it.
> >>
> >>> CC: sdibias_at_gmail.com; darby.weaver_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> >>> From: maniac.smg_at_gmail.com
> >>
> >>> Subject: Re: OT (Hint: maybe on-topic if you need to need help)
> >> 1-800-GET-NARBIK
> >>> Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 21:32:55 +0200
> >>> To: sameoj_at_gmail.com
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Was just about to say. Why does this happen everytime Darby makes a
> >>> reappearance ?
> >>>
> >>> CCIE # 23962 (SP)
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone 4
> >>>
> >>> On 30 Apr 2011, at 8:23 PM, oluwaseyi ojo <sameoj_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Darby and his controversial character,welcome back!!!!!
> >>>>
> >>>> On 4/30/11, Steve Di Bias <sdibias_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Darby I wasn't agreeing with you, I was agreeing with Ernest. I'm
> sure
> >>>>> you're a good guy however bashing vendors in a public forum is just
> >> plain
> >>>>> wrong. I myself am a customer of one of the "expert" vendors and the
> >>>>> materials, as well as the support that I get are second to none.
> >> Marko,
> >>>>> Scott, Narbik, Tyson and all the others are all excellent
> instructors,
> >> and
> >>>>> we should be grateful they exist, all of them have helped me
> >> tremondously
> >>> in
> >>>>> my CCIE preperation, as well as my career. However that being said
> I'm
> >>> going
> >>>>> back to my studies and disengaging from this worthless thread.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers!
> >>>>> On Apr 30, 2011 6:30 AM, "Darby Weaver" <darby.weaver_at_gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>> I totally agree with you guys - those materials that are half baked
> >> or
> >>>>> NEVER
> >>>>>> materialize are also uncalled for...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Who remembers buying audio from from one company that was never
> >>>>> finished...
> >>>>>> even after it was discontinued...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Who remembers buying video from the came company for labs...
> >> apparently
> >>>>> not
> >>>>>> profitable enough for continuation and so it too was abandoned...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But wait!!! Only later the same sets of videos re-appear as a "NEW"
> >>>>>> product... that can be purchased yet again!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That's uncalled for...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dude!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Some of these companies that do this kind of stuff really are
> >> uncalled
> >>> for
> >>>>>> and if everyone who gets shucked and jived speaks up about it....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A lot less of us would ever be calling them again.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But, hey.. that's uncalled for.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> None of them would ever call for any of the "stuff" they say or do
> to
> >> be
> >>>>>> known publicly... that would be uncalled for.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Anyone else need to more about what and why this kind of stuff is
> >>> uncalled
> >>>>>> for?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Look back in the day... we took the *Expert companies at their word
> >> since
> >>>>>> after all they had "expert" in the work and started with "I" so I'm
> >> sure
> >>>>> in
> >>>>>> the back of all of our naive minds... we were collectively
> >> thinking... if
> >>>>>> "I" learn from these "experts" then one day "I" would be an "expert"
> >>>>> too...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Follow the Master
> >>>>>> Walk Beside the Master
> >>>>>> Be the Master
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The problem was and still is that some of these guys... not all of
> >>> them...
> >>>>>> may have never actually worked on a production network at all or
> >> never
> >>>>> were
> >>>>>> "the guy" in the first place and so not all of their well
> intentioned
> >>> labs
> >>>>>> are wholely baked or worse... like that one guy who keeps trying to
> >>>>>> undermine an accepted manner of performing a task.... his
> experiments
> >> are
> >>>>> on
> >>>>>> a limited set of equipment - so while what he says may be true for
> >> 3-4
> >>>>>> devices or even in a small rack... (which in the example of one of
> >> the
> >>>>>> "MYTH" series is clearly mentioned on Cisco's site by the way)...
> >> he's
> >>>>>> cluelessly happy thinking he "debunked" a myth or something...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Others read it, respect the guy for whatever reason, and commit that
> >> to
> >>>>>> their accepted beliefs without really checking the facts...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dis-Service to the community.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd say stuff like that is uncalled for.... totally uncalled for...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Truthfully - If I were shopping for a class or a vendor at this
> >> moment...
> >>>>>> I'd shop around... that's really called for.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Vendors who put people they never heard of or never even attended
> >> their
> >>>>>> classes bought their products or were totally dis-satisfied with
> >> their
> >>>>>> products and then using those people and their CCIE numbers quite
> >>>>> FALSELY...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd say that is totally uncalled for.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Check the archives here on GS and use Google to find the slimy
> >> "*Expert"
> >>>>>> companies who fit the M.O....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Darby
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.darbyslogs.blogspot.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 3:24 AM, Steve Di Bias <sdibias_at_gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Agrred, totally uncalled for :/
> >>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2011 10:23 PM, "Ernest McCaleb" <emccaleb_at_gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Uncalled for Darby...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ernest McCaleb #21508
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - As the diameter of a circle of light increases, so does its
> >>>>>>> circumference
> >>>>>>>> of darkness. --Albert Einstein
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Darby Weaver <
> >> darby.weaver_at_gmail.com
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Here's the last segment of the Life with Narbik this week.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> http://darbyslogs.blogspot.com/2011/04/last-day-at-narbiks-bootcamp-1-800-get
> >>> .html
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I had a thought about some of the training videos (or even
> >> classes)
> >>>>>>> where
> >>>>>>>>> the material/instructor, etc are having difficulty when they
> don't
> >>>>>>> shave,
> >>>>>>>>> rehearse, or cannot even troubleshoot 2-4 routers on a toplogy
> >> they
> >>>>>>> created
> >>>>>>>>> or at least should have worked out prior to getting in public in
> >> front
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>> paying students...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> My advice:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> 1. If you are one of these instructors - GET HELP -
> Immediately...
> >>>>> Call
> >>>>>>>>> Narbik (1-800-GET-NARBIK) - It's not too late the class you save
> >> may
> >>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>>>> own.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> 2. If you are a student... ask the offending training company to
> >> send
> >>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>> Narbik's class instead of theirs for a repeat of the last time
> >> they
> >>>>> may
> >>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>> botched the job (not 100% just a little... every botch costs you
> >>>>>>>>> mistakes...)...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm writing this as a bit of a joke...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> However, I've seen videos where well-known and reputable
> >> instructors
> >>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>> absolutely no sense of professionalism (yawning, unshaven,
> >> unprepared
> >>>>>>>>> sometimes), make glaring mistakes... (even in CCNA/CCNP level
> >> topics
> >>>>> as
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>> CCIE no less) and the list goes on and one and on...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I've heard CCIE instructors marvel at Narbik's command retention
> >> or
> >>>>> even
> >>>>>>>>> scold the man for not using slides... they hate it.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Now watch carefully as some of the pitifully clueless (who are
> >>>>> probably
> >>>>>>>>> guilty as charged) get really upset at me again... for their own
> >>>>>>>>> inadequacy...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> If this is you... STOP - GET HELP... Call 1-800-GET-NARBIK today!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Don't let another class of students leave wondering how in the
> >> hell
> >>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>> were
> >>>>>>>>> going to resolve that problem, why you fast-forwarded the video,
> >> or
> >>>>>>> worse
> >>>>>>>>> never completed the thing... cause of um... "techncial
> >>>>> difficulties"....
> >>>>>>>>> etc.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> And if you need a class - take a moment and think about it...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Talk to your instructor -ask him/her about the competition and be
> >>>>>>> nice...
> >>>>>>>>> ask about all of them you care to and then ask them about Narbik
> >> and
> >>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>>>> they are going to do better or at least... the best they can do
> to
> >>>>>>>>> compete... they gotta eat too... and need your dime and support
> to
> >> pay
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>> their addiction...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Guys... you know who you are... it's your turn... I know you are
> >> out
> >>>>>>>>> there... speak up - you can unicast... some CCIE instructors know
> >> the
> >>>>>>>>> difference.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Darby
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Darby Weaver
> >>>>>>>>> Network Engineer
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.darbyslogs.blogspot.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> darbyweaver_at_yahoo.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Darby Weaver
> >>>>>> Network Engineer
> >>>>>> http://www.darbyslogs.blogspot.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> darbyweaver_at_yahoo.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Ojo Oluwaseyi O. CEng,FBCS
> >>> CITP,MNSE,MCPN,MNCS,CRISC,CEI,LPT,CCSI#33076,CCIE
> >>>> R&S XXXXX
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Darby Weaver
> > Network Engineer
> > http://www.darbyslogs.blogspot.com
> >
> > darbyweaver_at_yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

-- 
Darby Weaver
Network Engineer
http://www.darbyslogs.blogspot.com
darbyweaver_at_yahoo.com
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net