Re: CCIE SP Changes

Hello Experts,

how can i be a CCIE SP, and no nothing about CRS-1 & GSR, IOS XR !!!!
yes you can gain the certificate, but you have to know this OS & HW
architecture if you need to work in an ISP having a new cisco backbone,
CRS-1, GSR & ASR are the basic equipments for any new Cisco Backb bone
design offer.

The CCIE SP must have some changes, introducing GSR & CRS-1...10K with IOS
XR

but the draw back will be , how engineers will do the labs for preperation
!!!

Thanks & B.regards
Ahmed Elhoussiny,2x CCIE# 21988 (R&S-SP)
Network Consultant & Cisco Academy Instructor

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>wrote:

> I will be very surprised if Cisco adds CRSs and 7600s to the rack or KILL
> the cert all together, but then again i have been surprised
> before.......for
> few features here and there they will NOT kill the cert by adding 12K or
> CRSs. If you go based on that philosophy, the R&S track is pretty bad as
> well, who uses 3560s as their core? No matter where you go these days you
> are going to see 6500s, 4948s, 3750s, VSS and from time to time 4500s, you
> don't see them in the lab do you? They don t cost that much to Cisco but
> they are NOT in the lab.
>
>
>
> I can see them adding more 7200s, 1000s and may be god forbid ONE 7600
> (Which i doubt), BUT i do not see them adding anything else, what would it
> buys them? When you talk to people at Cisco you quickly realize that these
> people understand that for the cert to work, people need to have the
> ability
> to purchase the equipment, could you imagine if they emulate a TRUE
> provider
> environment? Will IPexpert have the equipment to train the SP track? If so,
> how many racks are they going to have? Forget IPexpert, who will have SP
> racks? NOT me for sure. Unless Cisco puts up bunch of SP racks and rents
> them to public for what we pay for a regular R&S rack.
>
>
>
> BTW, the cost of 7600s is NOT dirt cheap for Cisco, routers are routers,
> and
> one department will charge the other, they need *to justify it*, just look
> at the current R&S racks that are provided by Cisco for the 360 program,
> there are ONLY 32 of them, they are going to add more, but its NOT that
> cheap or that easy when you have to justify it from the business
> perspective.
>
>
>
> There are typically two different departments in the Provider network, the
> PE/CE Eng. and the Core Eng. I think the current track is not missing that
> much if any when it comes to PE/CE Eng. Now for the core they are missing
> some stuff but it is NOT that big that a CCIE SP can't handle. I know the
> next response will have a list of things that an SP CCIE did not have an
> exposure to, but you always learn, you know enough to pick up what you have
> not been exposed to.
>
> Let's NOT forget that normally in the core no matter where you go you
> see Juniper as well. A CCIE SP will have to learn lots of hardware, BUT
> when
> it comes to features, he/she will pick it up in no time. Another thing you
> need to remember is that no matter how many CCIEs you have and no matter
> what they do to the track, you still have to learn what the company that
> just employed you has and what they do and how they do it and the reasons
> why..
>
>
>
> But again, we are all guessing and assuming here.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:35 AM, <nortic_at_hackermail.com> wrote:
>
> > Marko, you can not lead if you don't want anyone to follow. Nine-tenths
> of
> > education is encouragement - Anatole France
> > Here is a theory: Inferior men boast about experience, Superior men boast
> > about victories.
> >
> > There is no difference between running IOS on a P4 or a MPC7448. RFC's
> are
> > CPU independent.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Marko Milivojevic <markom_at_ipexpert.com>
> > To: Roger Pfaeffli <rpf23543_at_gmail.com>
> > Cc: Azar Ali <azarali1980_at_gmail.com>; Narbik Kocharians
> <narbikk_at_gmail.com>;
> > Ashwin Iyer <ash.iyer_at_gmail.com>; Majonestx <majonestx_at_gmail.com>; Cisco
> > certification <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 3:31 pm
> > Subject: Re: CCIE SP Changes
> >
> > I agree with all of the below, but it also comes down to "what does
> > cert X represent".
> >
> > Do you really want to go to a certified cardio surgeon who has ... no
> > experience, but hey, he's got Certified Heart Surgeon (20% or less
> > chance of death)? No, me neither :-)
> >
> > --
> > Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> > Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
> >
> > Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> > Live Assistance, Please visit: http://www.ipexpert.com/chat
> > eFax: +1.810.454.0130
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 13:25, Roger Pfaeffli <rpf23543_at_gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > > Hi Marko, somehow you are right but I think you agree with me, that a
> Cert
> is
> > still a Cert and some of the things are not really relevant to
> livenetwork.
> So
> > how you want to study for them? Even if you have many years of
> experience,
> if
> > you have never used Cell Mode MPLS for example it makes it difficult to
> study
> > for it, isn't it? Normally you will not find all the Cert stuff in real
> > networks.
> > >
> > > To me, a big part of studying means hands on and training, training,
> training.
> > I think that only with that way you can see how it works and figure out
> issues
> > and weakness. You learn how to troubleshoot and so on.
> > >
> > > If you are lucky (as I am), you have CRS's, 7600's, ASR's and all other
> big
> > and expensive boxes in your lab, but what if you don't? Do you think
> someone
> > with no access to these products should not have the chance to make a SP?
> > >
> > > There are different point of views and we could discuss a long time. I
> > definitely agree that the tracks should be very close to the real world
> but
> > there should somehow be the possibility to make "real live training".
> > > This is very good possible also with the SP track...
> > >
> > > So let's see what's coming in future for SP :o)
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Roger
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----UrsprC<ngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Marko Milivojevic [mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com]
> > > Gesendet: Montag, 7. Dezember 2009 13:39
> > > An: Roger Pfaeffli
> > > Cc: Azar Ali; Narbik Kocharians; Ashwin Iyer; Majonestx; Cisco
> certification
> > > Betreff: Re: CCIE SP Changes
> > >
> > > I don't understand why everyone brings up "end of home lab" as
> > > something that is relevant. It's a SERVICE PROVIDER expert cert - none
> > > of us can have that kind of lab at home. If you CAN have it, there is
> > > something seriously wrong with the track. As someone who has worked
> > > for almost 15 years in SP arena, I should know :-).
> > >
> > > When CCIE came to market and became prestigious, it was equally
> > > expensive to prepare for it as it would be with "new" SP track.
> > > Personally, I see nothing seriously wrong with that. Certificate needs
> > > to be relevant, difficult and require dedication, study and experience
> > > to obtain. If certificate doesn't have those attributes, it's as
> > > useful as MCP Windows 98.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> > > Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
> > >
> > > Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> >
> > > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> > > Live Assistance, Please visit: http://www.ipexpert.com/chat
> > > eFax: +1.810.454.0130
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:55, Roger Pfaeffli <rpf23543_at_gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > >> Well Marko, if you are right that would mean "the end" of home labs...
> > >> ...at least for most of the students. I mean, imagine how much it
> would
> cost
> > to make a home lab with 7600, ASR1000...
> > >> I think even if you work with a SP, it could be difficult to get these
> boxes
> > 1 year just for studying.
> > >>
> > >> I definitely agree, there should be some changes in the SP lab to
> bring
> it up
> > to date, Cell Mode MPLS is (at least in my opinion) not really something
> we
> > should learn as the "future technology". Additionally there is so much
> L2VPN
> > stuff they should add.
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Apart from the fact that I hate the C7600 (evil QoS and other weird
> stuff
> > depending on the Linecard), I hope that Cisco will change the blueprint
> in
> that
> > way that it "can be affordable" to make a home-, or company lab.
> > >>
> > >> I would be very disappointed if they would shutdown this track...I
> mean,
> they
> > should rather shutdown Storage than the SP track...but that's my personal
> point
> > of view.
> > >>
> > >> Let's see what happens :o)
> > >>
> > >> Roger
> > >>
> > >> -----UrsprC<ngliche Nachricht-----
> > >> Von: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] Im Auftrag
> von
> > Marko Milivojevic
> > >> Gesendet: Montag, 7. Dezember 2009 09:09
> > >> An: Azar Ali
> > >> Cc: Narbik Kocharians; Ashwin Iyer; Majonestx; Cisco certification
> > >> Betreff: Re: CCIE SP Changes
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 07:50, Azar Ali <azarali1980_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> As Narbik said, its impossible to add 7600/12000 series routers due
> to
> cost.
> > >>> So I don't expect too much change.B I'm curious to see whatB cisco
> can
> do
> > for
> > >>> SP track apart from IOS,core knowledge,troubleshooting sections.
> Yeah,
> can
> > >>> could add a few more 7200's and probably some ISR's.
> > >>
> > >> I beg to differ. 7600 for Cisco are dirt cheap and all they would need
> > >> are two per location. Add to that a couple of ASR1000 boxes, combined
> > >> with 3-4 ME-3400 switches and you got yourself a pretty decent SP
> > >> setup, unlike the one we have today.
> > >>
> > >> IB4m certain we are going to see either change comparable to what I
> > >> described, or a complete shutdown of the track. All other tracks at
> the
> > >> moment make sense relevance and technology-wise. SP is very out of
> > >> date.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> > >> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
> > >>
> > >> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> >
> > >> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> > >> Live Assistance, Please visit: http://www.ipexpert.com/chat
> > >> eFax: +1.810.454.0130
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>
> > >>
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Narbik Kocharians
> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> www.MicronicsTraining.com
> Sr. Technical Instructor
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