Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

Andrew

Thanks for the reply by the way. Relate to the kid thing. It's about
'punters' at the end of the day. All due repect to trainers of course ;)
----- Original Message -----
From: "andrew" <andrew.coates_at_internode.on.net>
To: "'Gary Duncanson'" <gary.duncanson_at_googlemail.com>; "'Narbik
Kocharians'" <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:47 PM
Subject: RE: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

> Well maybe at the very least you should look at something like dynamips
> with
> real switches, its what I do, 3550's are cheap as chips. A lot of places
> are
> starting to replace them with 2560/3750's etc and apart from layer 2 QOS
> there isn't a hell of a lot of difference ( the biggest one would be
> private
> vlans).
>
> You could probably get away with a lab just using 3550's (also given that
> it
> sounds like you have spent a lot of time on remote racks anyway), I have
> two
> kids, I know what its like to be constantly interrupted, having my own lab
> Is a god send, I even get more then a few hours before I have to stop and
> do
> family stuff.
>
> Infact I study with one strapped to my chest ( 6month old), but now she is
> old enough that she wants to do what I do and bash the keyboard........
>
>
> cheers
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Gary
> Duncanson
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 6:28 AM
> To: Narbik Kocharians
> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
>
> It helps if rackhire is affordable to be honest. A busy day at work, kids
> at
> home. That rack session you had to schedule in advance has to get blown
> off.
> A
> write off in terms of outlay.
>
> Gone are the days when C&W gave chaps time on works time to do labs I'm
> afraid. Evenings and weekends for most of us and that doesn't always go to
> plan!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Narbik Kocharians
> To: Gary Duncanson
> Cc: Persio Pucci ; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:13 PM
> Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
>
>
> No R&S rack should cost more than $450 per month.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Gary Duncanson
> <gary.duncanson_at_googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Some of us regular guys always pay list price for rack rental and
> workbooks regardless of the options available. It adds up to thousands of
> dollars. But I guess some of us are old fashioned like that :)
>
> Lots of chatter about all this sort of thing on the list of late. I
> don't
> pretend to understand what it's all about but I hope it all gets
> straightened
> out. I tanked on anymore labprep tonight. Really busy day at work today.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Persio Pucci" <persio_at_gmail.com>
> To: "Cisco certification" <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:49 PM
>
> Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
>
>
>
> You know what? You have a good point there... I also think that the
> "pirate"
> would not buy it anyway... but would a regular guy buy it if he had
> access
> to the "pirated" material? What if it costed $1000? And how about
> $100?
> Or
> even $10 as Darby mentioned... Maybe the problem is the price point?
> idk...
>
> As for choosing INE, it was down to cost (yes, our pocket does have a
> bottom
> too!!!)... and besides I tried to find out about IPexpert material
> (which
> had almost the same price) but did not hear back from them, so I
> chose
> INE.
> Their approach is not my personal favorite, but they were responsive
> on
> my
> inquiry... (guess everybody else was out on Networkers Live?)
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Luan Nguyen <luan_at_netcraftsmen.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> IMHO, choosing INE for SP only when you have a good understanding
> of
> the
> blueprint. For starter, IEMentor, CCbootcamp, and IPExpert are
> probably
> much better. I like the proctor guide from IPExpert for
> security...explain
> stuff to you. But that's just me, other people from my company
> like
> INE...now that Scott is there, we probably could get good discount?
> :)
> You guys have almost 10K every year...you can do more for the
> training
> community:) take a bootcamp, buy something more expensive :) tell
> your
> coworkers...since you seem to be under a nice boss.
> Piracy is not that bad...for guys like you, you don't need to
> pirate
> anything. For people who pirate stuff, they wouldn't buy them
> anyhow
> so
> trainers don't lose much there.
>
> Luan Nguyen
> Chesapeake NetCraftsmen, LLC.
> http://www3.netcraftsmen.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On
> Behalf
> Of
> Persio Pucci
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:27 PM
> To: Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
>
> Brian,
>
> please keep INE alive, I just recently bought the SP material and
> I'd
> love
> to see that updated a little... :)
>
> While saying that, I think the training vendors should ALSO invest
> (more)
> on
> the other tracks... if you are just a newcomer you might think it's
> R&S or
> nothing. I know Cisco's next blow is the Voice 360... but hey,
> there
> are
> other tracks too... why not give them a little (more) attention?
> *(And just for the record, I (well, the company) bought the R&S
> material
> as
> well in the past... 5 printed and 3 eletronics sets if I am not
> mistaken.
> I'm doing my part helping you guys :D)*
> I agree with Darby, however, that piracy is the damnation of any
> training
> material (not Cisco-exclusive). Cannot think of a way out of it,
> however...
> :(
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Brian Dennis <
> bdennis_at_internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
>
> > As an FYI I'm not dead as rumored in the previous email ;-)
> >
> > I'll post an update to our blog tonight or tomorrow letting
> people
> know
> > what's going on at INE since a few people seem to be making up
> some
>> crazy
> > off the wall rumors. Basically we're just starting the process
> of
> opening
> > up additional operations in the Seattle, WA area where I now
> currently
> > live. Although Reno, NV is a nice place the amount of high tech
> >
> workers
> > is very limited to say the least. This wasn't a problem when we
> were
> > smaller but now we can't continue to grow with the limited high
> tech
> > workforce in the Reno area.
> >
> > In order to continue to grow we need to have offices in an area
> that
>> has
> a
> > good technical workforce to select from. Just trying to find a
> good
> > full-time PHP web developer or CCNA in Reno is a real struggle.
> This > of
> > course isn't the case in the Seattle area. Additionally flights
> to
> the
> > Seattle area for students attending classes are far better than
> the
> > limited selection of flights to the Reno area. Also the
> selection
> of
> > hotels for students is far better here in Seattle over Reno.
> >
> > Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
> > bdennis_at_internetworkexpert.com
> >
> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/><
> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 703
> > Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 703
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anthony Faria" <tfaria72_at_gmail.com>
> > Sent: Sun, July 12, 2009 21:01
> > Subject:Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
> >
> >
> > Were the blog hits low this week Darby ? LOL Really bro if you
> spent > as
> > much
> > time writing as you did studying you would be done with multiple
> ccie. > I
> > think you are a skilled wirter I think you should apply at a e IT
> magazine
> > or something. Not trying to slam you bro but sometimes you are
> over
> the
> > top.
> > Things change and so do companies it is a fact of life. The stuff
> you
> > originally bought was probably two lab versions ago. So if 5
> years
>>
> later
> > the
> > company goes under well shit you got your money worth. So please
> keep
> your
> > posts to your blog on this stuff . If you are going to help and
> answer
> > questions step up do some good instead of being war time media >
> coverage.
> I
> > seen Waynes alien Baby damn he is ugly!!! He sounded like Scott
> from
>> the
> > audio series though LOL JK Scott.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Darby Weaver
> <ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Hey don't take it quite so personal. Well I'd better take a
> step
>> > back
> on
> > > that one as you are currently working for one of the companies
> that
> other
> > > companies are talking about lately.
> > >
> > > What I saw at the conference was a certain sense of fear of
> what
> is
> > > happening and there is a lot of fallout from that fear and > >
> uncertainty.
> > >
> > > Some said InternetworkExpert is going through some rough times
> and
>> > the
> > only
> > > two viable major companies left were: The Cisco CCIE 360
> Consortium
> and
> > > IPExpert.
> > >
> > > Narbik joined the 360 it seems.
> > >
> > > InternetworkExpert may be perceived as having loss a certain
> sense
> of
> > > direction - I'm just summarizing here - The question that was
> used
>> > for
> a
> > > basis is "What's happening with Brian Dennis and the CCIE 2.0
> Program?".
> > >
> > > Don't take it that badly - I just gave you insight into what
> your
> > > competition is thinking and you should consider my words
> carefully.
> > >
> > > It was that line of reasoning that got me worried a bit last
> night.
> > >
> > > Technically IE has the killer product - The PolyLabs and they
> are
>> > quite
> > > innovative, creative, and quite possibly the single most act of
>>
>> genius
> > > created in a while. Simple plan and very nice exectution.
> > >
> > > IPExpert is expanding its borders.
> > >
> > > Cisco CCIE 360 is doing the same (kinda reminds me of pirates
> on
> the
> high
> > > seas but hey it I'd hope someone is making money from it - ).
> Hah!
> Hey
> > > they had to get the instructors from somewhere.
> > >
> > > I'm kinda wondering when Scott Morris is going to go
> independent
> > actually.
> > > You of all people have the name, reputation, sincerity, and
> technical
> > > expertise to pull it off. And you get back to people and
> everyone
> know
> > > it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I recall one instuctor saying he earned in 5 weeks at one point
> what
> took
> > > him almost a whole year to earn working for an employer. And
> of
>>
>> course
> > he
> > > is a very passionate instructor too.
> > >
> > > I kind of see one side trying to pick up all the chips or cash
> in
> the
> > chips
> > > that don't play the game.
> > >
> > >
> > > The piracy thing is the single biggest attack on the CCIE
> program
> and
> it
> > is
> > > a hard one to beat. Companies want to sell en masse and as
> long
> as
> that
> > is
> > > working - great. However, we have a very limited market and
> only
> so
> many
> > > candiates at a given time.
> > >
> > > I'm trying to say the Troubleshooting Section if delivered in
> classes
> and
> > > in
> > > classes alone, then it may help turn this thing around. But it
> won't
> > work
> > > if all companies and individuals don't come together to nip it
> in
> the
> > bud.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey just an opinion.
> > >
> > > If trainers are selling 10,000 copies electroinically instead
> of
> say > > 10
> > or
> > > even 100, then by all means carry on.
> > >
> > > If you ain't selling enough copies to justify the production
> costs
>> > (as
> > has
> > > been said to me privately), then you might want to take my
> observance
> > into
> > > account.
> > >
> > > Of course copy machines abound - but the real output ought to
> be
> in > > the
> > > class room itself and presentation.
> > >
> > > Scott you are quite legendary at this and you of all people
> would
> be > > a
> > > person to profit from such a situation.
> > >
> > > Time are changing. Sorry to kick things back to the stone
> ages,
> but
> > > security is not quite so secure on intellectual property these
> days.
> > > Handle
> > > with care.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com>
>>
>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > So your shock and awe about two companies left in the end was
> meant
> to
> > > > educate everyone that people stealing the digital downloads
> is
> bad?
> > > that's
> > > > a very strange way of delivering that message.
> > > >
> > > > And no, I haven't read your wiki. Didn't know you had one
> because > > > I
> > > > haven't really had the need to Google you and find out what
> things
> were
> > > or
> > > > were not posted by/about you.
> > > >
> > > > Next thing you know you're going to go with all-out > > >
> exclusive-photos
> of
> > > > Wayne Lawson's Alien Baby. And I just really don't think
> that's
> > > necessary.
> > > > That's a private family matter.
> > > >
> > > > ;)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *Scott Morris*, CCIE*x4*
> (R&amp;amp;S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
> > Provider)
> > #4713,
> > > >
> > > > JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> > > >
> > > > JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> > > >
> > > > evil_at_ine.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/><
> > http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> > > >
> > > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> > > >
> > > > Outside US: 775-826-4344
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Knowledge is power.
> > > >
> > > > Power corrupts.
> > > >
> > > > Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Darby Weaver wrote:
> > > >
> > > > FYI -
> > > >
> > > > I'm not so much concerned with Brian Dennis and whether or
> not
> he's
> > still
> > > > with IE, I would hope he is, but if he's not I do not see
> such
> a
> > talented
> > > > individual being without options.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not so much as concerned about my nose and whether or not
> it
> is
> > > broken
> > > > or not. (I guess someone never read my Wiki).
> > > >
> > > > I am concerned about my general investment in the CCIE
> Program.
>> > > That
> > is
> > > the
> > > > point of the matter.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am concerned when I see CCIE Instructors and Content
> Developers
> > > speaking
> > > > of no longer being able to make a living at their
> expectations
> in
> this
> > > > industry. This concerns me and if you have invested money in
> some > > > of
> > > these
> > > > programs and have a vested interest then it may or may not
> concern
> you.
> > > >
> > > > The tabloid thing catches the eye - but the real matter is
> that
>> > > with
> > the
> > > > advent of technology - people are taking advantage of the
> ease
> of
> > > downloads
> > > > and literally bankrupting an otherwise thriving industry.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >
> > > >
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> __
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- End of original message -----
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- End of original message -----
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Narbik Kocharians
> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> www.MicronicsTraining.com
> Sr. Technical Instructor
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
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Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Wed Jul 15 2009 - 21:55:31 ART