Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

Thanks Andrew.

The old gear is fine for bastardised labs. I use a 4000 with bridge groups
and fallback on remote racks for switching practice.

It's remote racks mostly for me. It adds up and contractor rates are
falling!

Cheers
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "andrew" <andrew.coates_at_internode.on.net>
To: "'Gary Duncanson'" <gary.duncanson_at_googlemail.com>; "'Narbik
Kocharians'" <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:47 PM
Subject: RE: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

> Well maybe at the very least you should look at something like dynamips
> with
> real switches, its what I do, 3550's are cheap as chips. A lot of places
> are
> starting to replace them with 2560/3750's etc and apart from layer 2 QOS
> there isn't a hell of a lot of difference ( the biggest one would be
> private
> vlans).
>
> You could probably get away with a lab just using 3550's (also given that
> it
> sounds like you have spent a lot of time on remote racks anyway), I have
> two
> kids, I know what its like to be constantly interrupted, having my own lab
> Is a god send, I even get more then a few hours before I have to stop and
> do
> family stuff.
>
> Infact I study with one strapped to my chest ( 6month old), but now she is
> old enough that she wants to do what I do and bash the keyboard........
>
>
> cheers
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Gary
> Duncanson
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 6:28 AM
> To: Narbik Kocharians
> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
>
> It helps if rackhire is affordable to be honest. A busy day at work, kids
> at
> home. That rack session you had to schedule in advance has to get blown
> off.
> A
> write off in terms of outlay.
>
> Gone are the days when C&W gave chaps time on works time to do labs I'm
> afraid. Evenings and weekends for most of us and that doesn't always go to
> plan!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Narbik Kocharians
> To: Gary Duncanson
> Cc: Persio Pucci ; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:13 PM
> Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
>
>
> No R&S rack should cost more than $450 per month.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Gary Duncanson
> <gary.duncanson_at_googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Some of us regular guys always pay list price for rack rental and
> workbooks regardless of the options available. It adds up to thousands of
> dollars. But I guess some of us are old fashioned like that :)
>
> Lots of chatter about all this sort of thing on the list of late. I
> don't
> pretend to understand what it's all about but I hope it all gets
> straightened
> out. I tanked on anymore labprep tonight. Really busy day at work today.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Persio Pucci" <persio_at_gmail.com>
> To: "Cisco certification" <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:49 PM
>
> Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
>
>
>
> You know what? You have a good point there... I also think that the
> "pirate"
> would not buy it anyway... but would a regular guy buy it if he had
> access
> to the "pirated" material? What if it costed $1000? And how about
> $100?
> Or
> even $10 as Darby mentioned... Maybe the problem is the price point?
> idk...
>
> As for choosing INE, it was down to cost (yes, our pocket does have a
> bottom
> too!!!)... and besides I tried to find out about IPexpert material
> (which
> had almost the same price) but did not hear back from them, so I
> chose
> INE.
> Their approach is not my personal favorite, but they were responsive
> on
> my
> inquiry... (guess everybody else was out on Networkers Live?)
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Luan Nguyen <luan_at_netcraftsmen.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> IMHO, choosing INE for SP only when you have a good understanding
> of
> the
> blueprint. For starter, IEMentor, CCbootcamp, and IPExpert are
> probably
> much better. I like the proctor guide from IPExpert for
> security...explain
> stuff to you. But that's just me, other people from my company
> like
> INE...now that Scott is there, we probably could get good discount?
> :)
> You guys have almost 10K every year...you can do more for the
> training
> community:) take a bootcamp, buy something more expensive :) tell
> your
> coworkers...since you seem to be under a nice boss.
> Piracy is not that bad...for guys like you, you don't need to
> pirate
> anything. For people who pirate stuff, they wouldn't buy them
> anyhow
> so
> trainers don't lose much there.
>
> Luan Nguyen
> Chesapeake NetCraftsmen, LLC.
> http://www3.netcraftsmen.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On
> Behalf
> Of
> Persio Pucci
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:27 PM
> To: Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
>
> Brian,
>
> please keep INE alive, I just recently bought the SP material and
> I'd
> love
> to see that updated a little... :)
>
> While saying that, I think the training vendors should ALSO invest
> (more)
> on
> the other tracks... if you are just a newcomer you might think it's
> R&S or
> nothing. I know Cisco's next blow is the Voice 360... but hey,
> there
> are
> other tracks too... why not give them a little (more) attention?
> *(And just for the record, I (well, the company) bought the R&S
> material
> as
> well in the past... 5 printed and 3 eletronics sets if I am not
> mistaken.
> I'm doing my part helping you guys :D)*
> I agree with Darby, however, that piracy is the damnation of any
> training
> material (not Cisco-exclusive). Cannot think of a way out of it,
> however...
> :(
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Brian Dennis <
> bdennis_at_internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
>
> > As an FYI I'm not dead as rumored in the previous email ;-)
> >
> > I'll post an update to our blog tonight or tomorrow letting
> people
> know
> > what's going on at INE since a few people seem to be making up
> some
>> crazy
> > off the wall rumors. Basically we're just starting the process
> of
> opening
> > up additional operations in the Seattle, WA area where I now
> currently
> > live. Although Reno, NV is a nice place the amount of high tech
> >
> workers
> > is very limited to say the least. This wasn't a problem when we
> were
> > smaller but now we can't continue to grow with the limited high
> tech
> > workforce in the Reno area.
> >
> > In order to continue to grow we need to have offices in an area
> that
>> has
> a
> > good technical workforce to select from. Just trying to find a
> good
> > full-time PHP web developer or CCNA in Reno is a real struggle.
> This > of
> > course isn't the case in the Seattle area. Additionally flights
> to
> the
> > Seattle area for students attending classes are far better than
> the
> > limited selection of flights to the Reno area. Also the
> selection
> of
> > hotels for students is far better here in Seattle over Reno.
> >
> > Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
> > bdennis_at_internetworkexpert.com
> >
> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/><
> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 703
> > Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 703
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anthony Faria" <tfaria72_at_gmail.com>
> > Sent: Sun, July 12, 2009 21:01
> > Subject:Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
> >
> >
> > Were the blog hits low this week Darby ? LOL Really bro if you
> spent > as
> > much
> > time writing as you did studying you would be done with multiple
> ccie. > I
> > think you are a skilled wirter I think you should apply at a e IT
> magazine
> > or something. Not trying to slam you bro but sometimes you are
> over
> the
> > top.
> > Things change and so do companies it is a fact of life. The stuff
> you
> > originally bought was probably two lab versions ago. So if 5
> years
>>
> later
> > the
> > company goes under well shit you got your money worth. So please
> keep
> your
> > posts to your blog on this stuff . If you are going to help and
> answer
> > questions step up do some good instead of being war time media >
> coverage.
> I
> > seen Waynes alien Baby damn he is ugly!!! He sounded like Scott
> from
>> the
> > audio series though LOL JK Scott.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Darby Weaver
> <ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Hey don't take it quite so personal. Well I'd better take a
> step
>> > back
> on
> > > that one as you are currently working for one of the companies
> that
> other
> > > companies are talking about lately.
> > >
> > > What I saw at the conference was a certain sense of fear of
> what
> is
> > > happening and there is a lot of fallout from that fear and > >
> uncertainty.
> > >
> > > Some said InternetworkExpert is going through some rough times
> and
>> > the
> > only
> > > two viable major companies left were: The Cisco CCIE 360
> Consortium
> and
> > > IPExpert.
> > >
> > > Narbik joined the 360 it seems.
> > >
> > > InternetworkExpert may be perceived as having loss a certain
> sense
> of
> > > direction - I'm just summarizing here - The question that was
> used
>> > for
> a
> > > basis is "What's happening with Brian Dennis and the CCIE 2.0
> Program?".
> > >
> > > Don't take it that badly - I just gave you insight into what
> your
> > > competition is thinking and you should consider my words
> carefully.
> > >
> > > It was that line of reasoning that got me worried a bit last
> night.
> > >
> > > Technically IE has the killer product - The PolyLabs and they
> are
>> > quite
> > > innovative, creative, and quite possibly the single most act of
>>
>> genius
> > > created in a while. Simple plan and very nice exectution.
> > >
> > > IPExpert is expanding its borders.
> > >
> > > Cisco CCIE 360 is doing the same (kinda reminds me of pirates
> on
> the
> high
> > > seas but hey it I'd hope someone is making money from it - ).
> Hah!
> Hey
> > > they had to get the instructors from somewhere.
> > >
> > > I'm kinda wondering when Scott Morris is going to go
> independent
> > actually.
> > > You of all people have the name, reputation, sincerity, and
> technical
> > > expertise to pull it off. And you get back to people and
> everyone
> know
> > > it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I recall one instuctor saying he earned in 5 weeks at one point
> what
> took
> > > him almost a whole year to earn working for an employer. And
> of
>>
>> course
> > he
> > > is a very passionate instructor too.
> > >
> > > I kind of see one side trying to pick up all the chips or cash
> in
> the
> > chips
> > > that don't play the game.
> > >
> > >
> > > The piracy thing is the single biggest attack on the CCIE
> program
> and
> it
> > is
> > > a hard one to beat. Companies want to sell en masse and as
> long
> as
> that
> > is
> > > working - great. However, we have a very limited market and
> only
> so
> many
> > > candiates at a given time.
> > >
> > > I'm trying to say the Troubleshooting Section if delivered in
> classes
> and
> > > in
> > > classes alone, then it may help turn this thing around. But it
> won't
> > work
> > > if all companies and individuals don't come together to nip it
> in
> the
> > bud.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey just an opinion.
> > >
> > > If trainers are selling 10,000 copies electroinically instead
> of
> say > > 10
> > or
> > > even 100, then by all means carry on.
> > >
> > > If you ain't selling enough copies to justify the production
> costs
>> > (as
> > has
> > > been said to me privately), then you might want to take my
> observance
> > into
> > > account.
> > >
> > > Of course copy machines abound - but the real output ought to
> be
> in > > the
> > > class room itself and presentation.
> > >
> > > Scott you are quite legendary at this and you of all people
> would
> be > > a
> > > person to profit from such a situation.
> > >
> > > Time are changing. Sorry to kick things back to the stone
> ages,
> but
> > > security is not quite so secure on intellectual property these
> days.
> > > Handle
> > > with care.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com>
>>
>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > So your shock and awe about two companies left in the end was
> meant
> to
> > > > educate everyone that people stealing the digital downloads
> is
> bad?
> > > that's
> > > > a very strange way of delivering that message.
> > > >
> > > > And no, I haven't read your wiki. Didn't know you had one
> because > > > I
> > > > haven't really had the need to Google you and find out what
> things
> were
> > > or
> > > > were not posted by/about you.
> > > >
> > > > Next thing you know you're going to go with all-out > > >
> exclusive-photos
> of
> > > > Wayne Lawson's Alien Baby. And I just really don't think
> that's
> > > necessary.
> > > > That's a private family matter.
> > > >
> > > > ;)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *Scott Morris*, CCIE*x4*
> (R&amp;amp;S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
> > Provider)
> > #4713,
> > > >
> > > > JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> > > >
> > > > JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> > > >
> > > > evil_at_ine.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/><
> > http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> > > >
> > > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> > > >
> > > > Outside US: 775-826-4344
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Knowledge is power.
> > > >
> > > > Power corrupts.
> > > >
> > > > Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Darby Weaver wrote:
> > > >
> > > > FYI -
> > > >
> > > > I'm not so much concerned with Brian Dennis and whether or
> not
> he's
> > still
> > > > with IE, I would hope he is, but if he's not I do not see
> such
> a
> > talented
> > > > individual being without options.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not so much as concerned about my nose and whether or not
> it
> is
> > > broken
> > > > or not. (I guess someone never read my Wiki).
> > > >
> > > > I am concerned about my general investment in the CCIE
> Program.
>> > > That
> > is
> > > the
> > > > point of the matter.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am concerned when I see CCIE Instructors and Content
> Developers
> > > speaking
> > > > of no longer being able to make a living at their
> expectations
> in
> this
> > > > industry. This concerns me and if you have invested money in
> some > > > of
> > > these
> > > > programs and have a vested interest then it may or may not
> concern
> you.
> > > >
> > > > The tabloid thing catches the eye - but the real matter is
> that
>> > > with
> > the
> > > > advent of technology - people are taking advantage of the
> ease
> of
> > > downloads
> > > > and literally bankrupting an otherwise thriving industry.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >
> > > >
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> __
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- End of original message -----
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- End of original message -----
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> >
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Narbik Kocharians
> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> www.MicronicsTraining.com
> Sr. Technical Instructor
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Wed Jul 15 2009 - 21:53:58 ART