RE: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

Well,

I don't call that old fashioned, it's common courtesy - the righteous thing
to do...because people do need to make a living. It's like the circle of
life...you make money because of your certifications and knowledge, then you
should give it back to people who help giving you those...it's that easy!
For me, I went to Netmasterclass boot camp, went through all 7 INE mock labs
numerous times and actually still have 69 bucks left in my account, bought
IPExperts security total package, bought SP material from Narbik, almost
went to bootcamp with Roman, bought CCDE written preparation guide from
CCbootcamp.
I always hire someone to mow my lawn, even though it's a really small yard
and I could do it myself easily. Just that you need to let others make a
living as well. Same goes for piracy trainers' materials.
But personally, I don't think that is the main reason IF training community
goes under.
And this problem could be minimize too in term of don't give support for
your products on public forums. Use your own forums to provide support for
people who actually bought the products! Value added!

With the lab now going with open ended questions and trouble shooting, it's
wise for INE to go back to CCNP boot camp. Once going through the CCNP boot
camp, of course you won't have any problem with OEQ nor troubleshooting.
It's the right thing to do, not that INE is desperate or anything like that.
It's good to dance along with Darby music, I personally think he's
entertaining, just don't let the noise get to you :)

Have a good weekend and be safe y'all.

Regards,

Luan Nguyen
Chesapeake NetCraftsmen, LLC.
http://www.netcraftsmen.net

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Duncanson
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:44 PM
To: Persio Pucci
Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

Some of us regular guys always pay list price for rack rental and workbooks
regardless of the options available. It adds up to thousands of dollars.
But I guess some of us are old fashioned like that :)

Lots of chatter about all this sort of thing on the list of late. I don't
pretend to understand what it's all about but I hope it all gets
straightened out. I tanked on anymore labprep tonight. Really busy day at
work today.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Persio Pucci" <persio_at_gmail.com>
To: "Cisco certification" <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

> You know what? You have a good point there... I also think that the
> "pirate"
> would not buy it anyway... but would a regular guy buy it if he had access
> to the "pirated" material? What if it costed $1000? And how about $100? Or
> even $10 as Darby mentioned... Maybe the problem is the price point?
> idk...
>
> As for choosing INE, it was down to cost (yes, our pocket does have a
> bottom
> too!!!)... and besides I tried to find out about IPexpert material (which
> had almost the same price) but did not hear back from them, so I chose
> INE.
> Their approach is not my personal favorite, but they were responsive on my
> inquiry... (guess everybody else was out on Networkers Live?)
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Luan Nguyen <luan_at_netcraftsmen.net>
> wrote:
>
>> IMHO, choosing INE for SP only when you have a good understanding of the
>> blueprint. For starter, IEMentor, CCbootcamp, and IPExpert are probably
>> much better. I like the proctor guide from IPExpert for
>> security...explain
>> stuff to you. But that's just me, other people from my company like
>> INE...now that Scott is there, we probably could get good discount? :)
>> You guys have almost 10K every year...you can do more for the training
>> community:) take a bootcamp, buy something more expensive :) tell your
>> coworkers...since you seem to be under a nice boss.
>> Piracy is not that bad...for guys like you, you don't need to pirate
>> anything. For people who pirate stuff, they wouldn't buy them anyhow so
>> trainers don't lose much there.
>>
>> Luan Nguyen
>> Chesapeake NetCraftsmen, LLC.
>> http://www3.netcraftsmen.net
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Persio Pucci
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:27 PM
>> To: Cisco certification
>> Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
>>
>> Brian,
>>
>> please keep INE alive, I just recently bought the SP material and I'd
>> love
>> to see that updated a little... :)
>>
>> While saying that, I think the training vendors should ALSO invest (more)
>> on
>> the other tracks... if you are just a newcomer you might think it's R&S
>> or
>> nothing. I know Cisco's next blow is the Voice 360... but hey, there are
>> other tracks too... why not give them a little (more) attention?
>> *(And just for the record, I (well, the company) bought the R&S material
>> as
>> well in the past... 5 printed and 3 eletronics sets if I am not mistaken.
>> I'm doing my part helping you guys :D)*
>> I agree with Darby, however, that piracy is the damnation of any training
>> material (not Cisco-exclusive). Cannot think of a way out of it,
>> however...
>> :(
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Brian Dennis <
>> bdennis_at_internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
>>
>> > As an FYI I'm not dead as rumored in the previous email ;-)
>> >
>> > I'll post an update to our blog tonight or tomorrow letting people know
>> > what's going on at INE since a few people seem to be making up some
>> > crazy
>> > off the wall rumors. Basically we're just starting the process of
>> opening
>> > up additional operations in the Seattle, WA area where I now currently
>> > live. Although Reno, NV is a nice place the amount of high tech
>> > workers
>> > is very limited to say the least. This wasn't a problem when we were
>> > smaller but now we can't continue to grow with the limited high tech
>> > workforce in the Reno area.
>> >
>> > In order to continue to grow we need to have offices in an area that
>> > has
>> a
>> > good technical workforce to select from. Just trying to find a good
>> > full-time PHP web developer or CCNA in Reno is a real struggle. This
>> > of
>> > course isn't the case in the Seattle area. Additionally flights to the
>> > Seattle area for students attending classes are far better than the
>> > limited selection of flights to the Reno area. Also the selection of
>> > hotels for students is far better here in Seattle over Reno.
>> >
>> > Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
>> > bdennis_at_internetworkexpert.com
>> >
>> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>> <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/><
>> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 703
>> > Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 703
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Anthony Faria" <tfaria72_at_gmail.com>
>> > Sent: Sun, July 12, 2009 21:01
>> > Subject:Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
>> >
>> >
>> > Were the blog hits low this week Darby ? LOL Really bro if you spent
>> > as
>> > much
>> > time writing as you did studying you would be done with multiple ccie.
>> > I
>> > think you are a skilled wirter I think you should apply at a e IT
>> magazine
>> > or something. Not trying to slam you bro but sometimes you are over the
>> > top.
>> > Things change and so do companies it is a fact of life. The stuff you
>> > originally bought was probably two lab versions ago. So if 5 years
>> > later
>> > the
>> > company goes under well shit you got your money worth. So please keep
>> your
>> > posts to your blog on this stuff . If you are going to help and answer
>> > questions step up do some good instead of being war time media
>> > coverage.
>> I
>> > seen Waynes alien Baby damn he is ugly!!! He sounded like Scott from
>> > the
>> > audio series though LOL JK Scott.
>> >
>> > Tony
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com
>> > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hey don't take it quite so personal. Well I'd better take a step
>> > > back
>> on
>> > > that one as you are currently working for one of the companies that
>> other
>> > > companies are talking about lately.
>> > >
>> > > What I saw at the conference was a certain sense of fear of what is
>> > > happening and there is a lot of fallout from that fear and
>> > > uncertainty.
>> > >
>> > > Some said InternetworkExpert is going through some rough times and
>> > > the
>> > only
>> > > two viable major companies left were: The Cisco CCIE 360 Consortium
>> and
>> > > IPExpert.
>> > >
>> > > Narbik joined the 360 it seems.
>> > >
>> > > InternetworkExpert may be perceived as having loss a certain sense of
>> > > direction - I'm just summarizing here - The question that was used
>> > > for
>> a
>> > > basis is "What's happening with Brian Dennis and the CCIE 2.0
>> Program?".
>> > >
>> > > Don't take it that badly - I just gave you insight into what your
>> > > competition is thinking and you should consider my words carefully.
>> > >
>> > > It was that line of reasoning that got me worried a bit last night.
>> > >
>> > > Technically IE has the killer product - The PolyLabs and they are
>> > > quite
>> > > innovative, creative, and quite possibly the single most act of
>> > > genius
>> > > created in a while. Simple plan and very nice exectution.
>> > >
>> > > IPExpert is expanding its borders.
>> > >
>> > > Cisco CCIE 360 is doing the same (kinda reminds me of pirates on the
>> high
>> > > seas but hey it I'd hope someone is making money from it - ). Hah!
>> Hey
>> > > they had to get the instructors from somewhere.
>> > >
>> > > I'm kinda wondering when Scott Morris is going to go independent
>> > actually.
>> > > You of all people have the name, reputation, sincerity, and technical
>> > > expertise to pull it off. And you get back to people and everyone
>> know
>> > > it.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I recall one instuctor saying he earned in 5 weeks at one point what
>> took
>> > > him almost a whole year to earn working for an employer. And of
>> > > course
>> > he
>> > > is a very passionate instructor too.
>> > >
>> > > I kind of see one side trying to pick up all the chips or cash in the
>> > chips
>> > > that don't play the game.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The piracy thing is the single biggest attack on the CCIE program and
>> it
>> > is
>> > > a hard one to beat. Companies want to sell en masse and as long as
>> that
>> > is
>> > > working - great. However, we have a very limited market and only so
>> many
>> > > candiates at a given time.
>> > >
>> > > I'm trying to say the Troubleshooting Section if delivered in classes
>> and
>> > > in
>> > > classes alone, then it may help turn this thing around. But it won't
>> > work
>> > > if all companies and individuals don't come together to nip it in the
>> > bud.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Hey just an opinion.
>> > >
>> > > If trainers are selling 10,000 copies electroinically instead of say
>> > > 10
>> > or
>> > > even 100, then by all means carry on.
>> > >
>> > > If you ain't selling enough copies to justify the production costs
>> > > (as
>> > has
>> > > been said to me privately), then you might want to take my observance
>> > into
>> > > account.
>> > >
>> > > Of course copy machines abound - but the real output ought to be in
>> > > the
>> > > class room itself and presentation.
>> > >
>> > > Scott you are quite legendary at this and you of all people would be
>> > > a
>> > > person to profit from such a situation.
>> > >
>> > > Time are changing. Sorry to kick things back to the stone ages, but
>> > > security is not quite so secure on intellectual property these days.
>> > > Handle
>> > > with care.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > So your shock and awe about two companies left in the end was meant
>> to
>> > > > educate everyone that people stealing the digital downloads is bad?
>> > > that's
>> > > > a very strange way of delivering that message.
>> > > >
>> > > > And no, I haven't read your wiki. Didn't know you had one because
>> > > > I
>> > > > haven't really had the need to Google you and find out what things
>> were
>> > > or
>> > > > were not posted by/about you.
>> > > >
>> > > > Next thing you know you're going to go with all-out
>> > > > exclusive-photos
>> of
>> > > > Wayne Lawson's Alien Baby. And I just really don't think that's
>> > > necessary.
>> > > > That's a private family matter.
>> > > >
>> > > > ;)
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > *Scott Morris*, CCIE*x4* (R&amp;amp;S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
>> > Provider)
>> > #4713,
>> > > >
>> > > > JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>> > > >
>> > > > JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>> > > >
>> > > > evil_at_ine.com
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>> > > >
>> > > >
http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>> <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/><
>> > http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>> > > >
>> > > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>> > > >
>> > > > Outside US: 775-826-4344
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Knowledge is power.
>> > > >
>> > > > Power corrupts.
>> > > >
>> > > > Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Darby Weaver wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > FYI -
>> > > >
>> > > > I'm not so much concerned with Brian Dennis and whether or not he's
>> > still
>> > > > with IE, I would hope he is, but if he's not I do not see such a
>> > talented
>> > > > individual being without options.
>> > > >
>> > > > I'm not so much as concerned about my nose and whether or not it is
>> > > broken
>> > > > or not. (I guess someone never read my Wiki).
>> > > >
>> > > > I am concerned about my general investment in the CCIE Program.
>> > > > That
>> > is
>> > > the
>> > > > point of the matter.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I am concerned when I see CCIE Instructors and Content Developers
>> > > speaking
>> > > > of no longer being able to make a living at their expectations in
>> this
>> > > > industry. This concerns me and if you have invested money in some
>> > > > of
>> > > these
>> > > > programs and have a vested interest then it may or may not concern
>> you.
>> > > >
>> > > > The tabloid thing catches the eye - but the real matter is that
>> > > > with
>> > the
>> > > > advent of technology - people are taking advantage of the ease of
>> > > downloads
>> > > > and literally bankrupting an otherwise thriving industry.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> > >
>> > >
Received on Fri Jul 17 2009 - 13:44:11 ART