Re: Breaking NDA - where to draw the line

did u not see the smilies?

i think my england is fine the way it is. so you can keep your money mate ;)

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 2:20 AM, Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> I know you may have your CCIE but if you need help interpretting what I
> said and did not say - just let me know - I'll pay for a tutor if needed.
>
>
>
>
> Better yet - I'll publish my vantage point and my post in greater depth and
> detail on a more international platform to ensure the point that the message
> is clear and unmistakeable.
>
> And this is what I posted:
>
>
>
> To reply to the original post:
>
> Breaking the NDA, How far is to far?
>
> Well to be truthful only Cisco knows the answer to that one. I mean I can
> tell you what I've seen on 5 labs, what people claim has been on every lab
> over the past 10-12 years or so, and I can tell you what is on well over
> 400+ vendor's labs over 4-5 tracks and which version of a question or an
> answer will violate the NDA or not?
>
> All of them?
>
> None of them?
>
> Some of them?
>
> More than likely Cisco will not confirm or deny any of the above?
>
> So what is too far? What if a person ask a question about a technology
> that just kicked their teeth in on the lab?
>
> What if I ask a RIP question? There are only x number of ways to stretch
> RIP, right? Well?
>
> What about anything else? What if someone thinks they saw the question I
> write? What if it was? What if it was not?
>
> What if I never went to a lab at all and post every question or task with a
> given set of restrictions that resembles what someone else said may or may
> not have been seen on a lab?
> Is that a violation? What if the poster simply does not know?
>
> I've seen it all my friends.
>
> I'm all over the underground forums from Japan to the land down under to
> forums in the Poland and the Netherlands - Chine, old Persia, and even South
> America and I've got more aliases than the devil.
>
> So how far is too far?
>
> Ouch! Damn! Rubble! Rubble! That's really a hard one.
>
> 1. If you saw it on your lab with your own eyes and repeat the question,
> the restrictions, or any information that may be inferred to have been from
> your own lab - you are probably breaking the NDA. Period.
>
> 2. If you believe the question/task/answer may be from anyone else's lab
> you are not directly breaking the NDA, however you may or may not be banned
> from the program from 1 year to life!!! Sorry not my issue and if you can't
> do the time, then don't do the crime. Just don't do it.
>
> 3. Remember your posts here or anywhere else on the Internet are loggged.
>
> 4. Rememeber that guys like me and probably Cisco guys too may be
> moderators, admins, list owners and other guys.... who have access to more
> than one site and yes - we all have tools to track and correlate the data
> and can put two and two together to figure out "WHO" "YOU" "ARE".
>
> 5. FYI - I once tracked a guy in Bulgaria and obtained a small apology and
> the digital rights to something borrowed something shared... once back in
> band camp... and that was after I had to "knock down some doors" and make
> my case - yes, I gave the innocents back their accounts when I resolved the
> issue. But hey... I tracked this person down and never left a class I was
> in to do it as I recall and if you know me well... I posted the step by step
> takedown on a forum somewhere out there and the actual timeline to see how
> long it would take me... Yes - this was from a 3rd party source (ebay) was
> where I found my prey and with a name that was meaningless to me when the
> game started and the drums began to roll.
>
> 6. Anyone think GS is not traceable? Then you need to talk to Paul.
>
> So the moral of the story if you take your chances do not think you are not
> invisible - aliases are a dime a dozen and so are fake IP Addresses -
> however - people are people and are people are flawed. Does ot take long to
> unravel is the mind is put to the test. Nothing to it.
>
> I'd say if you have a legitimate question on the technology - whether or
> not it was in lab or a graded lab and really need to see it explained and
> can ask for an explanation or produce your own example of the variables that
> in no way resembles the actual content of the lab (NDA) or graded/vendor lab
> (COPYRIGHT), then it is probably ok to ask on any given day.
>
> Someone at TAC threw a question at me once... How to encrypt RADIUS
> traffic? How would/could this work?
>
> Well?
>
> How would you do this? RADIUS? Now add ACS to the equation?
>
>
> Does that break the NDA? Why? Why not? Whose? It's a generic question?
> Can it even be done? Why or Why not?
>
> Does ACS support this? Does IAS support this? Does Steel-Belted Radius
> Support this? Does any open source RADIUS support this?
>
> Anyone?
>
> Would that be an NDA question? Hmm?
>
> Now what if I said I saw it or did not see it in a lab?
>
> Now would it?
>
> Now what if I said Cisco gave me it exactly worded as I worded my query?
> Now does it violate the NDA?
>
> Now suppose someone told me that they had it or someone they knew had it on
> a lab somewhere?
>
> Now does it break the NDA?
>
> Why? Why not? Who broke the NDA? A person that never saw the question?
> How?
>
> See...
>
> It's hard sometimes.
>
> And then you have people that come along and try to use an alias to
> disguise their own identity.
>
> And so on...
>
>
> Well - I went to war against this kind of thing only a few months ago on a
> forum a few 0's and 1's away from this forum and the saddest part I've seen
> yet is when it becomes so rampant that some people honestly are not sure any
> more what is and what is not NDA or what is not any more.
>
> Who knew things could get so complicated for just three little letters?
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I did say I am a member of forums worldwide.
>>
>> Could you quote me exactly - if you are going to accuse me of such a
>> broad-based statement.
>>
>> Rockasaurus - Not extinct.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Well I didn't say everyone outside the US.
>>>
>>> Although now I question people's ability to "interpret" English.
>>>
>>> Seems some people are challenged.
>>>
>>> LOL
>>>
>>> Even people in Penal insitutions get educated to read.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Jonny English <redkidneybeans_at_gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> seems derby is banned from GS. someone copied him into the thread, he
>>>> sent
>>>> an email saying everyone outside the US were wrong doers, i read the
>>>> email
>>>> then someone took him out of the thread lol..... ;)
>>>>
>>>> i guess i'm not offended anymore. i'm over it ;)
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:35 PM, Marcus J. Lasarko, Sr. <
>>>> mlasarko_at_gmail.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Disclaimer: I live in Pennsyltucky and have close friends in various
>>>> types
>>>> > of racing. I also know a few owners of monster trucks - a couple are
>>>> my
>>>> > neighbors. I am allowed, and proud to state the following facts in a
>>>> > positive way.
>>>> > _________________________
>>>> >
>>>> > You have a point there Travis.
>>>> >
>>>> > In monster trucks you can race plus smash stuff sometimes even jump
>>>> > things...
>>>> >
>>>> > Note that the jumping and smashing are generally NOT a good practice
>>>> in
>>>> > NASCAR - especially the JUMPING part. :P
>>>> >
>>>> > There are exceptions of course, events like the Baja 1000 you can
>>>> drive
>>>> > practically anything you want if you think you can make it, smashing
>>>> and
>>>> > jumping things along the way as you please!
>>>> >
>>>> > As for the
>>>> >
>>>> > Non-
>>>> > Accepted
>>>> > Sport
>>>> > Centered
>>>> > Around
>>>> > Rednecks
>>>> >
>>>> > NASCAR draws consistent large and loyal crowds, some of the largest in
>>>> > single-day events, not like some of those that tally weeks or months
>>>> of
>>>> > spectators along the way... sh run | i hint
>>>> >
>>>> > There are other events that involve a lot of driving fast and turning
>>>> left,
>>>> > with some curves in between:
>>>> >
>>>> > Indy 500
>>>> > 24 Hours of Le Mans
>>>> > Australian Grand Prix
>>>> >
>>>> > ... three continents with a very common bond. Can we all sing Kum Ba
>>>> Yah
>>>> > and roast marshmallows now?
>>>> >
>>>> > (or at least until Darby 'returns' to participate in this thread?)
>>>> >
>>>> > ~M
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Jun 17, 2009, at 2:35 AM, Travis Niedens wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I thought monster truck events were more in-line with that as there
>>>> are
>>>> >> different competitions you can do with your truck -- NASCAR is just
>>>> >> looping a
>>>> >> track and has become a bit more accepted now they have a female
>>>> driver.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Travis
>>>> >>
>>>> >> To: jscrivener_at_ipexpert.com; dennis.worth_at_gmail.com
>>>> >>> CC: smorris_at_internetworkexpert.com; redkidneybeans_at_gmail.com;
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> martin.j.hogan_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Subject: Re: Breaking NDA - where to draw the line
>>>> >>> From: jastorino_at_ipexpert.com
>>>> >>> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:05:09 +0000
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> NASCAR? The redneck olympics? : )
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Regards,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Joe Astorino
>>>> >>> CCIE #24347 (R&S)
>>>> >>> Sr. Support Engineer IPexpert, Inc.
>>>> >>> URL: http://www.IPexpert.com <http://www.ipexpert.com/>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >>> From: Jared Scrivener <jscrivener_at_ipexpert.com>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:43:07
>>>> >>> To: Dennis Worth<dennis.worth_at_gmail.com>
>>>> >>> Cc: Scott Morris<smorris_at_internetworkexpert.com>; Jonny
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> English<redkidneybeans_at_gmail.com>; Martin Hogan<
>>>> martin.j.hogan_at_gmail.com
>>>> >> >;
>>>> >> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Subject: Re: Breaking NDA - where to draw the line
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Not so offended that the soothing sound of a banjo won9t make it all
>>>> seem
>>>> >>> like a distant memory, I hope. Maybe you can watch some NASCAR to
>>>> cheer
>>>> >>> up
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> a
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> bit... Actually I9m in Ohio now, so the NASCAR reference is a bit
>>>> >>> hypocritical. ;)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On 6/17/09 2:38 PM, "Dennis Worth" <dennis.worth_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Why Kentucky? Why can't it be Alabama or West Virginia? I am
>>>> offended!
>>>> >>>> ;)
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Jared Scrivener
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>> <jscrivener_at_ipexpert.com>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Not all Aussie's are descended from convicts: some of us are
>>>> descended
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> from
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> unpopular prison guards who were sent to the other side of the
>>>> world to
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> look
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> after the convicts... And Kentucky has what: banjos, roadkill and
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> bourbon,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> if the rumors I keep hearing are true, right? Seems to me we're on a
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> pretty
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> level playing field here... ;)
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> On 6/17/09 8:35 AM, "Scott Morris" <
>>>> smorris_at_internetworkexpert.com>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>> Not to stir the pot too much, but you DO realize that you live in
>>>> an
>>>> >>>>>>> ex-British penal colony, right? ;)
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> And it may be a little pre-judgemental to say that Darby thinks
>>>> that
>>>> >>>>>>> without seeing whatever he posted specifically.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
>>>> Provider)
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> #4713,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> evil_at_ine.com
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Knowledge is power.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Power corrupts.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Jonny English wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> i agree with you mate.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am offended that Darby thinks we are bad people ....
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Martin Hogan
>>>> >>>>>>>>> <martin.j.hogan_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, Comments below:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Darby
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Weaver<ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To reply to the original post:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <SNIP>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm all over the underground forums from Japan to the land
>>>> down
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> under to
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>> forums in the Poland and the Netherlands - Chine, old Persia,
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> even
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> South
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> America and I've got more aliases than the devil.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I dispute that there is any such forums in the land down
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> under.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is slander Darby.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Im surprised that a mailing list for industry experts has
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>> absolutely
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> no adherence to the principles in rfc1855.
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Cheers,
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Jared Scrivener CCIE3 #16983 (R&S, Security, SP), CISSP
>>>> >>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.
>>>> >>>>> URL: http://www.IPexpert.com <http://www.ipexpert.com/>
>>>> >>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>>>> >>>>> Fax: +1.810.454.0130
>>>> >>>>> Mailto: jscrivener_at_ipexpert.com
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>> Cheers,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Jared Scrivener CCIE3 #16983 (R&S, Security, SP), CISSP
>>>> >>> Sr. Technical Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.
>>>> >>> URL: http://www.IPexpert.com <http://www.ipexpert.com/>
>>>> >>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>>>> >>> Fax: +1.810.454.0130
>>>> >>> Mailto: jscrivener_at_ipexpert.com
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> _________________________________________________________________
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>>>> >>
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>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >> Subscription information may be found at:
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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Received on Thu Jun 18 2009 - 10:07:24 ART