Re: Open-Ended Questions in the CCIE Security Track

I'm all for Cisco trying to maintain the integrity of this cert. Even well
before I switched from unix administration to networks, I knew of this cert
and respected it - granted their was a lot of fear and awe with all the
rumours and tales I heard of the 2 day lab at the time;). I really am glad
that troubleshooting is showing back up in some form as I maintain it was a
huge gap in the test not to have it on there. The OEQ, I feel, could have
been implemented better. Personally, I'd rather have a full written exam
administered by a qualified proctor as part of a 2 day exam - or to have an
interview with the proctor instead of a computer-administered exam. The way
the OEQ was implemented feels accusatory by Cisco rather than a way for the
candidate to show knowledge of the blueprint technologies.

Also, if Cisco's serious about its certification process, I'm sure it
welcomes the input - positive and negative - from its proctors, exam
vendors, and field engineers - as long as the negative comments are
accompanied by possible solutions to make the exam process better. There's
always a monetary component, but if I thought for a moment that Cisco didn't
care about this certification, I'd probably switch to another vendor track.
It's not fun to hawk a vendor's products when you don't respect the company
to some degree.

Michael
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Scott Morris <
smorris_at_internetworkexpert.com> wrote:

> I don't necessarily agree with that. There are plenty of things that
> Cisco does which I don't agree with. however, I do think the OEQs are
> an "ok" idea. I think the troubleshooting is a great idea, and I've
> been saying that for years. (formerly, I guess that was a complaint,
> but now that they finally agree with me it's an agreement!)
>
> I really don't believe the addition of the OEQs was because of $$. Will
> it lead to extra revenue? Perhaps. although you're as likely to have
> people drop their dates (not spend money) as you are to have people fail
> because of the OEQs. So that would make it a wash financially.
>
> While I can't speak for all the instructors I can tell you that I've
> never had a problem in telling Cisco what I think about their
> policies/programs. Granted, if it's anything disparaging, I tend to
> make comments to the appropriate people rather than publicly. Gets
> better results that way. :) but, if I personally come out with a
> comment in agreement with what Cisco is doing, you can be assured that
> it's because I really agree with it and not because I'm toting anyone's
> corporate line.
>
> Case 'n' point regarding public commentary though, I've made several
> comments about the "plaques" currently received by people who pass their
> lab which I still don't like what Cisco's done. But OEQs and
> Troubleshooting, I think are good ideas.
>
> Just my two cents. :)
>
>
>
>
>
> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
>
> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>
> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>
> smorris_at_internetworkexpert.com
>
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>
> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>
>
> Knowledge is power.
>
> Power corrupts.
>
> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>
>
>
>
>
> CCIE 2008 wrote:
> > well said Tim
> >
> > Do not expect any of the CCIE instructors will say any word against Cisco
> ,
> > or cisco will be angry and they cannot afford that :) all are working to
> > gain money from the CCIE candidates :)
> >
> > so it is better for all of them to break the rules and make any changes
> they
> > want in the 90 days window you paid for something but why not you will
> > exam in another thing :)) you paid for the written already and pass but
> why
> > not 4 or 5 Q will make you pay for another 1400 $ + hotel+ fly fees !!!!
> >
> >
> > so everything Cisco say is the best even the instructors will try to mock
> > the truth by telling keeping Value or other none sense reasons .
> >
> > all about business and money nothing more :)
> >
> > exams are so much money gain than any other hardware product.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> >
> > On 5/18/09, Tim <timcurci_at_roadrunner.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Scott-
> >>
> >> I do not think that anyone is questioning whether one should understand
> >> what
> >> is being asked vis-a-vis the blueprint...although I specifically
> question
> >> the timing of the release of the change in format of the security exam
> >> since
> >> the blueprint has recently been revised (i.e. more than 30 days notice
> of
> >> the change should have been given). For those taking the exam within the
> >> next 90 days this is not what they paid for.
> >>
> >> Correct me if I am wrong, however, if one "fails" this 4-5 question
> >> mini-quiz, then one fails the lab. I am not sure what a passing score on
> >> this "quiz" is, nor will I ever know :). The whole thing seems somewhat
> >> subjective to me.
> >>
> >> Four to Five questions is not a statistically valid pool of questions
> that
> >> should invalidate the results of an 8-hour lab exam.
> >>
> >> If you fail the 4-5 question exam then Cisco should send you home and
> >> refund
> >> your $1,400.
> >>
> >> This is getting silly.
> >>
> >> Tim
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Scott Morris
> >> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 9:37 PM
> >> To: Mohammed Gazzaz
> >> Cc: ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com;
> security_at_groupstudy.com
> >> Subject: Re: Open-Ended Questions in the CCIE Security Track
> >>
> >> They're more about the application of knowledge. And that knowledge of
> >> protocols is what should be cemented more in your brain now from
> >> practicing for the lab exam. The "blueprint" covered by these
> >> open-ended questions is the lab blueprint. Although it's written in
> >> nature, it's about the application/knowledge of technologies.
> >>
> >> IMHO if you are practicing enough about how the different technologies
> >> really work rather than concentrating on any particular command-line
> >> memorization you'll have no problem at all with these things!
> >>
> >> We are compiling a list of sample questions/ideas and things of that
> >> nature at the moment, and will be releasing materials in order to help
> >> refresh your memory on things and drive away that fear, uncertainty and
> >> doubt!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> >>
> >> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> >>
> >> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> >>
> >> smorris_at_internetworkexpert.com
> >>
> >>
> >> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >>
> >> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> >>
> >> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> >>
> >> Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >>
> >>
> >> Knowledge is power.
> >>
> >> Power corrupts.
> >>
> >> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mohammed Gazzaz wrote:
> >>
> >>> You are right, I should not be afraid but I am.
> >>>
> >>> I passed the written test last year and managed to score only 74%.
> >>> I don't really have a good memory and it really hurts to fail the lab
> >>>
> >> because of 4 simple questions.
> >>
> >>> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 14:57:29 -0400
> >>> Subject: Re: Open-Ended Questions in the CCIE Security Track
> >>> From: ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com
> >>> To: mgazzaz_at_hotmail.com
> >>> CC: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com; security_at_groupstudy.com
> >>>
> >>> Technically if you passed the written - you are there already - that
> test
> >>>
> >> is filled with OEQ.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Mohammed Gazzaz <mgazzaz_at_hotmail.com>
> >>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> What Study materials do you guys
> >>> recommend? and are 2 months enough to prepare for the OEQ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Will those be enough ? or do I need more materials?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yusif's book
> >>>
> >>> DOC CD
> >>>
> >>> CCIE Security Exam Quick Reference Sheets
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: amsoares_at_netcabo.pt
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com; security_at_groupstudy.com
> >>>> Subject: Open-Ended Questions in the CCIE Security Track
> >>>> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 02:46:38 +0100
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Starting the 15th June:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le3/ccie/announcements/index.html
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Antonio Soares, CCIE #18473 (R&S)
> >>>> amsoares_at_netcabo.pt
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's
> FREE!
> >>> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family
> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>
> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Mon May 18 2009 - 12:55:22 ART