Re: UK Boot Camp

From: Narbik Kocharians (narbikk@gmail.com)
Date: Sat Mar 14 2009 - 18:22:09 ARST

hhahahaha,

Well if Darby says "*hey Narbik offers a FREE retake*", then, you say "hey
it can not be FREE because you need to eat, sleep and etc etc etc".

When i mention that you need to audit the class and talk to the students and
see if you click with the instructor, you say well "*You kind of lose
perspective (IMHO) if you only attend a snippet*" so should they audit 5
days? or the entire boot camp?

Then, *what is your recommendation for choosing one over the other?* The
number of triple and quad ccies?

Well, IMHO, a student MUST have the ability to retake the class and the
class itself should NOT cost the student anything. IMHO, and please
understand that this is my *HONEST OPINION*, *it can ONLY help*, it can NOT
hurt at all.

The other aspect of retaking the boot camp is that it helps specially after
when a student passes the CCIE lab.
We all know that you are at the peak of your knowledge when you pass the
exam, what happens after that....well....we get side tracked with projects
etc etc etc etc , and as a result of that you get a little rusty. With us, i
highly recommend *that the student retake the boot camp once a year to
polish his/her knowledge even afer passing the exam,* unless Cisco has
changed things around, and if they have, the bootcamp should NOT cost the
student what it costs a new student. I know that the student has to pay for
the food, hotel, and etc etc. But hey we offer classes in: *LA, DC/VA,
Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, NY, Amsterdam*, BTW, the *UK* will be on the menu,
*Malaysia, Sydney, Poland and Dubai*, i hope i did not miss any of the
locations, therefore, *that may be close to where you live*.

*You see how the philosophy is different?* but hey NO ONE CAN TELL ME THAT
IPexpert or IE classes or their work books are bad, i recommend it to all of
my students, and this can be verified with them, you should see the
protocols/whatever from different perspectives, THE MORE LABS THEY DO, the
better they get.

IMHO, a perfect bootcamp should have a perfect balance, a perfect balance
between labs and lectures, the instructor should NOT LECTURE, he/she SHOULD
TEACH.

IMHO, if the instructor uses projection and explains/reads what he/she sees
in the slide, hey.....my grandma can do the same....but then again she is a
dual CCIE.

IMHO, the boot camp should NOT cost an arm and a leg..

Once again, these are SOME of the things to look when YOU are choosing one
boot camp over another.

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Scott Morris <
smorris@internetworkexpert.com> wrote:

> Technically the same concepts can be applied to anyone's bootcamp. But
> let's look at it:
>
>
>
> Come once, learn the fundamentals - basically, you're going to go in not
> knowing nearly enough to get a real benefit from it, so you'll spend a lot
> of time with the deer-in-headlights look and pick up some fundamentals.
> You'll do some lab work, spend a lot of time looking at the answers and
even
> though you may learn, it can be a frustrating experience.
>
>
>
> Come back and learn more - Now here's the part where you run into the idea
> of what has ALWAYS been my philosophy on attending a class. Know SOMETHING
> about every topic. Avoid that deer-in-headlights look. If you have some
> basis, you can ask good questions. Things will make sense to you and you
> can get into the finer points.
>
>
>
> The more you know about a subject, the better off it is. Even if you think
> you are well prepard, you'll always get that "knew that, knew that, knew
> that Oooohhhhhhh.. THAT's what that is for" with the occasional little
> glint in there. As well as any specific questions you ask.
>
>
>
> You CAN do that with any training. Kinda falls under the "repetition is
> the mother of all learning". but the question comes back to do you do work
> on your own first, then attend the bootcamp at the point it was designed
> for? Or do you try the brute-force method?
>
>
>
> It's definitely your (or your company's) travel money. Even with free
> re-attendance to a class, you still need to eat, sleep and travel And be
> off your "normal" job.
>
>
>
> So keep in mind there is nothing unique to this philosophy for one trainer
> or another. it's just that (again, my opinion) I think it's a better idea
> to avoid the frustration level of attending without being prepared.
>
>
>
> And, by the way If you attend one bootcamp unprepared and then attend a
> different one perpared, there isn't really a basis for comparison between
> the two as you knew more for the second one than for the first. :)
>
>
>
> Just a thought, YMMV
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> *From:* Darby Weaver [mailto:ccie.weaver@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:29 PM
> *To:* smorris@internetworkexpert.com
> *Cc:* Narbik Kocharians; Nick; Cisco certification
>
> *Subject:* Re: UK Boot Camp
>
>
>
> Hey -
>
>
>
> Here's some advice that anyone considering any class or bootcamp might want
> to consider - especially if it is on your own dime:
>
>
>
> 1. Are you ready for the class?
>
>
>
> That's a big question. Only you can answer that question.
>
>
>
> 2. Have you at least read the command configuration guides and command
> reference guides for each technology?
>
>
>
> Common Sense - not quite so common actually - Probably not.
>
>
>
> Bootcamps and 5-Day or even 10-12 Days Class move incredibly fast. Expect
> to spend 4-8 hours on any subject -even BGP, Multicast, or Qos.
>
>
>
> If you have not at least read the material - what did you expect someone to
> blow smoke in your nose so you just magically learn those topics in 3-4
> hours... Strangely enough it never EVER works this way. Lightbulbs go on
> for people who spend a lot of time studing these subjects before the
> class. Not the quick fix, last minute types.
>
>
>
> 3. Do you have a firm grasp of frame relay, bridging, arp, and switching
> topics like Spanning-Tree....
>
>
>
> If not, chances are you may not have enough time to get it in 8 hours that
> a class may spend on all those topics - and remember about 50-60% or better
> of your time is going to be hands-on...
>
>
>
>
>
> 4. Do you know your IGPS.... if not.... what was the point of going so
> quickly again? These topics make or break a CCIE Candidate. You either
own
> them or you don't.
>
>
>
> Remember the class is there to round you out. Learn the finess details
> that otherwise might slip by even a well-prepared candidate.
>
>
>
> 5. Again - Know before you go...
>
>
>
>
>
> If there is anyone who would like to add please be my guest.
>
>
>
> Remember one of the first Disclaimers you will here in any class kinda goes
> like this:
>
>
>
> This bootcamp will not do the work for you. It is usually meant to be a
> finishing school. Not a starting school.
>
>
>
>
>
> Narbik may be the exception - since he says come now... learn the
> fundamentals... then.... don't go to the lab... come back in 6+ months and
> try the class again after you've had time to practice at the expert level.
>
>
>
> IE provides a good foundation and solid base as well.
>
>
>
>
>
> However, one should know how to configure things before making the jump in
> any event.
>
>
>
>
>
> IMHO
>
>
>
>
>
> Darby Weaver
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Scott Morris <
> smorris@internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
>
> You kind of lose perspective (IMHO) if you only attend a snippet. Because
> you perhaps lose some of the background or previous humor about whatever
> was
> being discussed.
>
> I suppose do whatever makes sense to you, but >I< would try to look at the
> whole picture instead of looking at snippets and expecting a worthwhile
> comparison. *shrug*
>
>
> Scott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>
> Narbik Kocharians
> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:16 AM
> To: Darby Weaver
> Cc: Nick; Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: UK Boot Camp
>
> I think i like that idea, you should audit Anthony's class and talk to
> students and do the same with my class and pick the one you like. That is
> the best way. Some times you click with a person and like the way he/she
> teaches the class. But i would recommend going there the third or the forth
> day so you can get a true sense of what is happening. Just a
> recommendation..
>
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > No company. I'm not advertising.
> >
> > Just an FYI - :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Nick <ccieaz@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Darby,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the information, and that is a good price.. But my lab date
> is
> > > 5th May, so was looking for a date before then.
> > >
> > > BTW, what company do you work for, I dont see a signature?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > > 2009/3/13 Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > Narbik is in Milton Keynes very soon. Details soon - not sure exactly
> > >> when.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> May, which I will do tomorrow daytime. The quick details are the
> course
> > >> will be running in Milton Keynes on the the 18th - 23rd May. I have
> > >> negotiated the rate down to #1650 inc VAT which is a great price for
> an
> > >> excellent course.
> > >>
> > >> I will post up all of the details tomorrow about the course, the
> > location,
> > >> the venue and how to book (through my company).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Nick <ccieaz@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi All,
> > >>> Does anyone have any suggestions of a UK based boot camp this which
> > takes
> > >>> place before May?
> > >>>
> > >>> I am looking for a 5 or 6 day hopefully in London somewhere.
> > >>>
> > >>> Also I am interested in a boot camp that is not focused purely on
> > >>> information from a deck of slides!
> > >>>
> > >>> Any recommendations will be great.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks
> > >>>
> > >>> Nick
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>>
> > >>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net <http://www.ccie..net/>
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Narbik Kocharians
> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> www.Net-Workbooks..com <http://www.net-workbooks.com/>
> Sr. Technical Instructor
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

--
Narbik Kocharians
CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
www.MicronicsTraining.com
www.Net-Workbooks.com
Sr. Technical Instructor

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net

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