From: kanghlee@gmail.com
Date: Sat Mar 14 2009 - 18:31:32 ARST
Narbik,
I can't agree with you more.
I am still appreciate your retake policy.
thanks again.
On Mar 14, 2009 3:22pm, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk@gmail.com> wrote:
> hhahahaha,
> Well if Darby says "*hey Narbik offers a FREE retake*", then, you say "hey
> it can not be FREE because you need to eat, sleep and etc etc etc".
> When i mention that you need to audit the class and talk to the students
> and
> see if you click with the instructor, you say well "*You kind of lose
> perspective (IMHO) if you only attend a snippet*" so should they audit 5
> days? or the entire boot camp?
> Then, *what is your recommendation for choosing one over the other?* The
> number of triple and quad ccies?
> Well, IMHO, a student MUST have the ability to retake the class and the
> class itself should NOT cost the student anything. IMHO, and please
> understand that this is my *HONEST OPINION*, *it can ONLY help*, it can
> NOT
> hurt at all.
> The other aspect of retaking the boot camp is that it helps specially
> after
> when a student passes the CCIE lab.
> We all know that you are at the peak of your knowledge when you pass the
> exam, what happens after that....well....we get side tracked with projects
> etc etc etc etc , and as a result of that you get a little rusty. With
> us, i
> highly recommend *that the student retake the boot camp once a year to
> polish his/her knowledge even afer passing the exam,* unless Cisco has
> changed things around, and if they have, the bootcamp should NOT cost the
> student what it costs a new student. I know that the student has to pay
> for
> the food, hotel, and etc etc. But hey we offer classes in: *LA, DC/VA,
> Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, NY, Amsterdam*, BTW, the *UK* will be on the
> menu,
> *Malaysia, Sydney, Poland and Dubai*, i hope i did not miss any of the
> locations, therefore, *that may be close to where you live*.
> *You see how the philosophy is different?* but hey NO ONE CAN TELL ME THAT
> IPexpert or IE classes or their work books are bad, i recommend it to all
> of
> my students, and this can be verified with them, you should see the
> protocols/whatever from different perspectives, THE MORE LABS THEY DO, the
> better they get.
> IMHO, a perfect bootcamp should have a perfect balance, a perfect balance
> between labs and lectures, the instructor should NOT LECTURE, he/she
> SHOULD
> TEACH.
> IMHO, if the instructor uses projection and explains/reads what he/she
> sees
> in the slide, hey.....my grandma can do the same....but then again she is
> a
> dual CCIE.
> IMHO, the boot camp should NOT cost an arm and a leg..
> Once again, these are SOME of the things to look when YOU are choosing one
> boot camp over another.
> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Scott Morris
> smorris@internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
> > Technically the same concepts can be applied to anyone's bootcamp. But
> > let's look at it:
> >
> >
> >
> > Come once, learn the fundamentals - basically, you're going to go in not
> > knowing nearly enough to get a real benefit from it, so you'll spend a
> lot
> > of time with the deer-in-headlights look and pick up some fundamentals.
> > You'll do some lab work, spend a lot of time looking at the answers and
> even
> > though you may learn, it can be a frustrating experience.
> >
> >
> >
> > Come back and learn more - Now here's the part where you run into the
> idea
> > of what has ALWAYS been my philosophy on attending a class. Know
> SOMETHING
> > about every topic. Avoid that deer-in-headlights look. If you have some
> > basis, you can ask good questions. Things will make sense to you and you
> > can get into the finer points.
> >
> >
> >
> > The more you know about a subject, the better off it is. Even if you
> think
> > you are well prepard, you'll always get that "knew that, knew that, knew
> > that Oooohhhhhhh.. THAT's what that is for" with the occasional little
> > glint in there. As well as any specific questions you ask.
> >
> >
> >
> > You CAN do that with any training. Kinda falls under the "repetition is
> > the mother of all learning". but the question comes back to do you do
> work
> > on your own first, then attend the bootcamp at the point it was designed
> > for? Or do you try the brute-force method?
> >
> >
> >
> > It's definitely your (or your company's) travel money. Even with free
> > re-attendance to a class, you still need to eat, sleep and travel And be
> > off your "normal" job.
> >
> >
> >
> > So keep in mind there is nothing unique to this philosophy for one
> trainer
> > or another. it's just that (again, my opinion) I think it's a better
> idea
> > to avoid the frustration level of attending without being prepared.
> >
> >
> >
> > And, by the way If you attend one bootcamp unprepared and then attend a
> > different one perpared, there isn't really a basis for comparison
> between
> > the two as you knew more for the second one than for the first. :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Just a thought, YMMV
> >
> >
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Darby Weaver [mailto:ccie.weaver@gmail.com]
> > *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2009 2:29 PM
> > *To:* smorris@internetworkexpert.com
> > *Cc:* Narbik Kocharians; Nick; Cisco certification
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: UK Boot Camp
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey -
> >
> >
> >
> > Here's some advice that anyone considering any class or bootcamp might
> want
> > to consider - especially if it is on your own dime:
> >
> >
> >
> > 1. Are you ready for the class?
> >
> >
> >
> > That's a big question. Only you can answer that question.
> >
> >
> >
> > 2. Have you at least read the command configuration guides and command
> > reference guides for each technology?
> >
> >
> >
> > Common Sense - not quite so common actually - Probably not.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bootcamps and 5-Day or even 10-12 Days Class move incredibly fast.
> Expect
> > to spend 4-8 hours on any subject -even BGP, Multicast, or Qos.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you have not at least read the material - what did you expect
> someone to
> > blow smoke in your nose so you just magically learn those topics in 3-4
> > hours... Strangely enough it never EVER works this way. Lightbulbs go on
> > for people who spend a lot of time studing these subjects before the
> > class. Not the quick fix, last minute types.
> >
> >
> >
> > 3. Do you have a firm grasp of frame relay, bridging, arp, and switching
> > topics like Spanning-Tree....
> >
> >
> >
> > If not, chances are you may not have enough time to get it in 8 hours
> that
> > a class may spend on all those topics - and remember about 50-60% or
> better
> > of your time is going to be hands-on...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 4. Do you know your IGPS.... if not.... what was the point of going so
> > quickly again? These topics make or break a CCIE Candidate. You either
> own
> > them or you don't.
> >
> >
> >
> > Remember the class is there to round you out. Learn the finess details
> > that otherwise might slip by even a well-prepared candidate.
> >
> >
> >
> > 5. Again - Know before you go...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If there is anyone who would like to add please be my guest.
> >
> >
> >
> > Remember one of the first Disclaimers you will here in any class kinda
> goes
> > like this:
> >
> >
> >
> > This bootcamp will not do the work for you. It is usually meant to be a
> > finishing school. Not a starting school.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Narbik may be the exception - since he says come now... learn the
> > fundamentals... then.... don't go to the lab... come back in 6+ months
> and
> > try the class again after you've had time to practice at the expert
> level.
> >
> >
> >
> > IE provides a good foundation and solid base as well.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > However, one should know how to configure things before making the jump
> in
> > any event.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > IMHO
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Darby Weaver
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Scott Morris
> > smorris@internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
> >
> > You kind of lose perspective (IMHO) if you only attend a snippet.
> Because
> > you perhaps lose some of the background or previous humor about whatever
> > was
> > being discussed.
> >
> > I suppose do whatever makes sense to you, but >I
> > whole picture instead of looking at snippets and expecting a worthwhile
> > comparison. *shrug*
> >
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >
> > Narbik Kocharians
> > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:16 AM
> > To: Darby Weaver
> > Cc: Nick; Cisco certification
> > Subject: Re: UK Boot Camp
> >
> > I think i like that idea, you should audit Anthony's class and talk to
> > students and do the same with my class and pick the one you like. That
> is
> > the best way. Some times you click with a person and like the way he/she
> > teaches the class. But i would recommend going there the third or the
> forth
> > day so you can get a true sense of what is happening. Just a
> > recommendation..
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Darby Weaver ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > No company. I'm not advertising.
> > >
> > > Just an FYI - :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Nick ccieaz@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Darby,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the information, and that is a good price.. But my lab
> date
> > is
> > > > 5th May, so was looking for a date before then.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, what company do you work for, I dont see a signature?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Nick
> > > >
> > > > 2009/3/13 Darby Weaver ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > Narbik is in Milton Keynes very soon. Details soon - not sure
> exactly
> > > >> when.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> May, which I will do tomorrow daytime. The quick details are the
> > course
> > > >> will be running in Milton Keynes on the the 18th - 23rd May. I have
> > > >> negotiated the rate down to #1650 inc VAT which is a great price
> for
> > an
> > > >> excellent course.
> > > >>
> > > >> I will post up all of the details tomorrow about the course, the
> > > location,
> > > >> the venue and how to book (through my company).
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Nick ccieaz@googlemail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hi All,
> > > >>> Does anyone have any suggestions of a UK based boot camp this
> which
> > > takes
> > > >>> place before May?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I am looking for a 5 or 6 day hopefully in London somewhere.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Also I am interested in a boot camp that is not focused purely on
> > > >>> information from a deck of slides!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Any recommendations will be great.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Nick
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net http://www.ccie..net/>
> > >
> > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Narbik Kocharians
> > CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > www.MicronicsTraining.com http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > www.Net-Workbooks..com http://www.net-workbooks.com/>
> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Narbik Kocharians
> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> www.MicronicsTraining.com
> www.Net-Workbooks.com
> Sr. Technical Instructor
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
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