From: Edward Balow (ebalow@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Mar 09 2008 - 13:37:54 ARST
No, the CCIE isn't going to guarantee anybody anything. But then again, what
is? There are folks with PhDs from MIT who can't find jobs. Or top tier MBA
graduate flipping burgers at McDonalds.
I seem to remember most people on the board going after the CCIE more for the
challenge than the reward. Of course that doesn't cover everybody, but if you
were one of those people, maybe you should consider if you were being honest
with yourself.
I absolutely have a better understanding of networks now. I also believe I
have more job security. When I survived the dotcom implosion around 2002, it
was colleagues, not certifications, that pulled me through. One of the quotes
I remember from that time was, "CCIEs had to take CCNP level jobs". So what
kinds of jobs were left for the CCNPs and CCNAs?
Many managers have no idea how tough the CCIE is. But then again, can you
blame them? Lately there seems to be an outpouring of posts on people passing
the CCIE in 3, or even 2 months. How many people have completed their
Master's degrees in two months? If it was accredited, I'll bet the answer is
0.
And of course there's the obscene notion comparing the CCIE to a PhD. Exactly
what substantial original research was required to pass the lab exam?
Like a degree, the CCIE opens the door. It's up to you do make it happen once
you get to that point. There are jobs on Monster that say, "CCIE required".
You can apply for those jobs now, where you couldn't before. They don't say,
"Be the first to respond with the CCIE and the job is yours, guaranteed".
If you're looking for a great job with incredible pay, you do have some
options. Go to med school and become a surgeon, and hope the malpractice fees
don't go up too much more over the next few years. Of course $250,000 in
student loans is a little more of an investment than $10-15,000 for CCIE
studies. Or invent the next big thing on the web, like the facebook, google,
and youtube pioneers did.
Just my thoughts,
Ed Balow
CCIE #20152
> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 08:54:11 -0500> From: dwinkworth@wi.rr.com> To:
joe@affirmedsystems.com> CC: hnugroho@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com;
comserv@groupstudy.com> Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2> > HAHAHAHA.> >
This is so true. Is it me, or is there just no regard at all lately for >
networking or network engineers?> > Being a CCIE makes you a glorified NOC
person it seems, in the eyes of > so many managers. > > Sometimes I'm not sure
what the point of doing it was.> > Derick> CCIE #15672> > Joseph Brunner
wrote:> >> Passing the elite level and world's toughest certification from
Cisco> >> Systems> >> > >> > Would this be the one they are walking away from
to create the CCDE, CCMA,> > and CCOT (operating thetan?)> >> > And the same
one that lately employers hold in line with the CCNA> >> > "Must be CCIE, or a
strong CCNA" (see dice, 2 weeks ago)> >> > Just checking, because before I add
my stars to my shoulder bars, I was just> > Asking for feedback...> >> > Joe,>
> CCMS (master skeptic)> >> >> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From:
nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of> > Himawan
Nugroho> > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:27 AM> > To: groupstudy;
comserv@groupstudy.com> > Subject: How to Become a CCIE v2> >> > Hi everyone,>
> I hope I don't just waste everyone's bandwidth.> > I made the new version of
"How to Become a CCIE" (v2) and hopefully> > it's useful for CCIE candidates.
You may want to check the following> > as well:> >> > How to Become a CCIE v2
@ amazon - with the list of some books I read> > during CCIE SP preparation:>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/RLUWDJWTD4FN2/> >> >
How to Become a CCIE @ amazon - with list of some books I used during> > CCIE
Security preparation (the original how-to version, may be> > outdated, written
on Feb 2006):> >
http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/BYNHY05D4X84/> >> >
Summary of the journey in passing 3 CCIE labs:> >
http://brokenpipes.blogspot.com/2007/09/triple-ccie-history-in-making.html> >>
> The very first post I made after passing the last lab:> >
http://brokenpipes.blogspot.com/2007/08/triple-ccie.html> >> >> > Regards,> >
Himawan Nugroho> >> >> > How to Become a CCIE v2> >> > Passing the elite level
and world's toughest certification from Cisco> > Systems, tips from someone
who has done it three times> > By Himawan Nugroho, CCIE#8171 (R&S, Security,
SP)> > Inevitable -- http://brokenpipes.blogspot.com> >> > I was digging
through my own blog archive and found that my first post> > about How to
Become a CCIE is quite old and need to get updated. In> > fact, I'm thinking
to modify it in such a way so the same principle> > should be applied to any
CCIE tracks, and even to any top level> > certification from other vendor.
Without any intention to re-invent my> > own writing, I just put the updates
and I tried to make it short this> > time. So if you'd like to read more about
my experience taking the lab> > 3 times, I suggest you to read the original
version and all related> > posts, starting with the summary of my journey.> >>
> Btw, in case you haven't noticed I'm trying to learn how to sell by> > using
marketing hypes, hence the words "elite level", "world's> > toughest" and
"from someone who has done it three times" yeah, right> > :)> >> > 1. You
still need to ask yourself "what's the point?"> > It's still a very tough
challenge. It's still a long and tiring> > process. You will spend lots of
efforts and money to get it. You still> > need to sacrifice your spare time
and social life. So you should have> > at least one good reason why you want
to do CCIE. And don't try to> > fake the reason. No one can give you the
answer and I bet no one other> > than you really cares what it is. But it's
important for you because> > this might be the only thing that can keep you
going, that can wake> > you up from your laziness, that can make you come out
from your> > frustration in the middle of your journey.> >> > Once you know
and believe in your reason, then decide which track you> > want to pursuit.
Follow your heart, do only the track you like.> > Continue with collecting the
information about that specific track:> > read the CCIE blueprint for both
written and lab exam. Read Networkers> > slides to get a brief picture about
the exam format and sample of the> > question (Yes they have a session for
this, I remember I read and> > listened to the presentation conducted by CCIE
SP proctors).> >> > 2. Use the mid-level certification> > Now the step for all
CCIE tracks are very clear and they all have> > mid-level certification
(except CCIE storage). So if you want to take> > CCIE in Routing & Swithing
you should learn CCNP. For CCIE Service> > Provider you should start with
CCIP. For Voice it's CCVP. And for> > Security it's CCSP (the new Security lab
doesn't require extensive> > knowledge of routing & switching anymore, you may
check its blueprint> > v2). Remember, using this mid-level certification
doesn't mean you> > have to pass it.> >> > If you are one of the guys who
wrote me email to say that> > certification is useless, want to take CCIE just
to prove how good you> > are, doesn't want to waste time with CCNA,
CCNP/IP/SP/VP then it's> > fine. Don't take the exam but you can still utilize
the resources to> > plan your study. The base knowledge for CCIE is already
covered in the> > mid-level certification. So do the obvious and follow the
flow: read> > the books for the mid-level of track you want to pursuit even
you> > don't have to take the exam. Passing the mid-level exam is important> >
just as a review to ensure you have really understood the material> > covered
by the certification. And you may want to get your knowledge> > to some extend
to be certified by Cisco that can be considered a> > reward in your journey
even you haven't completed it.> >> > 3. A new way to build your home lab> >
Practice extensively in the lab is still the key to pass CCIE. But for> >
certain tracks, R&S and SP, you can practice CCIE lab without having> > any
real equipments. I have built a step-by-step guidance to do this> > with
dynamips. Dynamips is a very popular emulator for Cisco IOS and> > now some
people have released several front-end interface such as> > dynagen or GNS3 to
make it easier to setup and build the topology.> > It's an emulator to provide
real router environment that can trick the> > real Cisco IOS so it will boot
in normal PC. So it's still need the> > real Cisco IOS software, and please
don't ask me to send you this.> >> > Many people still wrote me email asking
this question: is it possible> > to pass CCIE only with dynamips? Yes, it is.
I have seen some of my> > friends did this. In fact, I did all my practice for
CCIE SP only with> > (censored), something similar as dynamips. Censored =
internal info to> > Cisco employees heheh. I'm planning to take the top level>
> certification from other vendor (guess who :)) using a similar> > emulator
only. I want to do it just to utilize my spare time, to prove> > my point
here, and obviously for fun.> >> > You may still require to build home lab, or
rent it online, for other> > CCIE tracks.> >> > 4. Passing written test still
doesn't prove anything> > This is still the same point as my original post.
You can read the> > written exam blueprint and compare it with the lab. Take
the written> > test and feel its coverage. Then setup your lab after that,
start> > doing the workbook, and feel the difference. For some tracks,
studying> > for written test doesn't add any value for the lab preparation.>
>> > For me, I don't count the step to pass written test as part of my> >
checklist to pass the lab. After you pass written exam, you are> > eligible to
register for the lab. And that's what it's all about.> > Passing written test
doesn't mean you are half-CCIE. It doesn't mean> > you are 20% or even 10%
ready to take the lab. I count it as Step 0.> > >From the written test you
should start practicing in the lab and build> > the percentage of your
progress. Use the lab blueprint as your> > guidance. Once you cover 100% in
the list then you may be ready for> > your first attempt. Well, this is not
always the case. I covered only> > 80% and passed in my first attempt. But
don't count on my experience!> >> > So my point here is: never count passing
written test as part of your> > CCIE lab preparation. Just look at it as
administrative step required> > to register for the lab.> >> > 5. Read, read
and read, then practice> > I won't list all the books that I read to prepare
for all my CCIE> > labs. They are just so many of them! And sometime you just
need to> > read few chapters from one book. The must-read book list is
different> > for every track and may not updated. But you can start by
checking on> > the book list from CCIE website. If you think it's still too
much,> > then I suggest you to again use the Lab Exam Blueprint as your> >
guidance. Read about one scope of technology at a time. Read from CCO,> >
since this is Cisco certification so it always makes sense to check> > the
configuration guide and technical tips from their website.> > Material from
Networkers (slides with sound) is still a good resource,> > and I think you
can get this from Networkers Online.> >> > Google is always our best friend.
And you may be interested to> > subscribe for online books library such as
Safari Books online. Check> > the list of their books first before you pay!
The benefit of reading> > from a website like Safari is they provide a
google-seach to find> > specific topic you want to read from several books.>
>> > 6. Fast and Furious may not the trend anymore> > Indeed you still need
the speed in typing. I guess it will be> > difficult to pass CCIE if you still
use only two fingers to type and> > always look at your keyboard when you do
so. There is just not enough> > time! But it was a different experience when I
did my R&S and Security> > with my SP lab. In the first two, there are many
independent> > technology that I can skip to come back later on if I don't
know the> > answer. So my strategy at that time was to answer all questions
that I> > know the obvious answers first. Then I went back to answer some of
the> > questions that I'm not too sure about it. And the rest of the time was>
> to answer all questions that I have no clue, and I used to depend on> >
Documentation CD or restricted CCO documentation websites to find the> >
answers. So normally I tried to complete 70-80% of the lab before> > lunch,
since I know I need to spend many hours to read from> > documentation CD.> >>
> But in SP, it was a different story. Many topics are connected to> > another
topics, many topics are built based on another topics as> > underlying
protocol, and all decision we make to answer one topic may> > affect our
answer for the topic we build on top of it. So the strategy> > that works for
me at that time was "do it once, and do it right". I> > needed to make sure I
had answered the question correctly before I> > moved to the next question
(unless it's independent feature that I can> > skip). Even I can type IOS
command quite fast but at that time I had> > only 1 hour left to re-check my
work. And documentation CD is not our> > best friend anymore in SP lab. There
is no time to read it and> > actually to be able to build a working topology
all topics covered in> > the lab must be understood thoroughly, unless it's
related to features> > or enhancements.> >> > 7. Join the community> > There
is no doubt about this. Learn from others' experience and share> > your own
experience. Check the archive for all previous discussions.> > Answer the
questions in the forum in order to get the answers for your> > questions to
the forum. Build a healthy discussion forum! Respect each> > other and always
think those people who are willing to answer are not> > getting paid for that
so don't be rude and push to get answers (unless> > you join a commercial
forum or the forum that is created by vendor to> > answer your questions
related to the product/workbook you purchase> > from them).> >> > Same as what
I wrote in my original post, it would be good if you can> > build a small
discussion forum in your area that can meet offline.> > It's always better to
have someone to share your frustration or> > listening for someone's
experience to boost the spirit while having> > coffee together. CCIE is a
one-man-journey type of experience but as I> > said in the original post, I
was happy just to know there were others> > out there who might be doing the
same thing and facing the same> > challenges. You are not the only one, even
you are alone who must open> > the door, Neo.> >> > 8. Asking the right
question is an art> > Try to ask some silly questions or obvious questions
that any CCIE lab> > proctors are not allowed to answer are not recommended.
They are there> > in the lab to clarify the question, and sometime they can
provide you> > hints to the answer. So use this chance wisely because you
don't want> > the proctors mark your face in his brain as someone who asks him
the> > answer for CCIE lab.> >> > More into that, I think it's really good to
build a culture on how to> > ask a question effectively. I received many
emails asked me how to> > become a CCIE even now still working on CCNA? That's
easy, pass your> > CCNA first! Or I have seen some people throw one line
question to the> > forum: how can I configure MPLS VPN? Why don't you spend a
little bit> > of your time to read the website, use google, RTFM, try it in
your lab> > and when you are really stuck you can send your specific question
with> > all required information such as the config and topology.> >> > Learn
how to ask effectively.> > We all definitely need this even for the life
outside CCIE lab.> >> > 9. Understand the lab question> > I was not born in
english-speaking country. And even I have spent 6> > years working overseas,
with English as daily business language, it> > was still difficult for me to
understand some of the lab question. For> > my CCIE SP lab all the questions
were straight forward. I went to the> > proctor only because I found some
vague words and since I know how to> > ask I could even get the hints after I
clarified the words with the> > proctor. So they are there in the lab to help
you to clarify the> > questions. But that's all.> >> > And I found out when
some lab questions are so confusing, it's better> > to sit back and look at
the topology as a whole and a unit. So try to> > understand what we are trying
to build in the lab from helicopter> > view, not from the device or
configuration perspective. For example,> > when I did my SP lab I looked at
the drawing, read the questions,> > tried to understand what kind of network I
have to build with all> > traffic flow and policy then it became easier for me
when I worked on> > each question to put the configuration.> >> > 10.
Skeptical attitude might the one you need the most> > Trust no one, trust no
solution. Don't trust the configuration guide> > in Cisco website. Don't
believe what people say or write in the forum.> > Don't trust the
configuration and solution written in Ciscopress> > books. Don't even trust
the solution from the vendor for those CCIE> > workbooks that you must pay for
it!> >> > I'm not saying that all those resources are bad and should not be> >
trusted. What I'm trying to say here is you should not trust any> > solution
unless you prove it in your lab. It may work in the book but> > not in your
case because you use different IOS. You may read it and> > think you have
already understood the technology but then when it> > doesn't work in the lab
only you realize there is a missing part that> > you need to discover. And
some people either make a typo in their> > solution or answer it with one way
because of some consideration that> > you may not able to see.> >> > So never
stop asking: Why? How come it's possible? Why the solution> > use that way?
What if I answer it with this way? How to prove the> > concept really works?
What if I add this on top of that? How to answer> > this question if I modify
or add with that requirement? And so on.> >> > 11. CCIE is nothing but a mind
game> > You still need to read lots of books. You still need to practice> >
extensively. You still need to make the strategy and plan your study> >
accordingly. But on top of that, you really need the right mindset and> >
attitude to pass. Other than being skeptical and consistently test the> >
solution in the lab, you must be positive most of the time. You should> >
believe you can achieve your target if you really spend efforts in> > doing
so. Avoid unnecessary discussion and long debate about why you> > need to
become a CCIE (you should do that in Step 1 above). Leave your> > discussion
group if they keep telling you it's very difficult to pass> > CCIE and you
won't be able to make it because you don't have what it> > takes to pass. Or
they say you don't have same opportunity as the> > others who can pass.
Everyone has the same chance to pass. During my> > journey I have proved that
it's not a matter of time, nor it's a> > matter of support from the company or
how many resources you have.> > It's all about the mindset.> >> > And other
than being positive, you should develop ability to be> > adaptable as well, to
make you ready for any surprises in the lab. You> > should know how to analyze
a problem and use the right approach to> > solve it. This is required to
ensure you can understand the> > requirements in the lab and choose the right
method to answer. You> > need to be able to make decision and handle situation
under pressure> > within limited amount of time. And you don't risk your life
in taking> > this CCIE anyway! So relax, try your best to be prepared,
extremely> > prepared, but in the end if you make mistakes and fail, you lose>
> nothing but the cost to take the lab. On the other side you will> >
definitely learn something from your failure and gain more than what> > you
lose.> >> > So again, Everyone has the same chance to pass.> > If someone
tells you the otherwise, ask him to talk to me ;)> >> > 12. Enjoy every moment
of it> > What's the point to do something if you don't enjoy it? Again, this
is> > the reason why Step 1 is very crucial. It's very important to follow> >
your heart. Because pursuing CCIE requires you to be focus and> > consistent,
so it will be difficult if you don't know why you want to> > do this in the
first place. You must sacrifice your spare time and> > social life so it's
really important for those around who care to you> > to be part of the game.
Discuss your plan with them and try to still> > make some contact with other
human beings when you are not geeking out> > in the lab.> >> > I remember when
I did my security I still spent some time with my> > family to go to the
beach, even my mind was in> > Firewall-ACL-to-allow-BGP-traffic-with-NAT and>
> IDS-fine-tuning-to-send-alert-only-after-certain-hits. I sacrificed my> >
sleep to gain extra time to study. I sacrificed my lunch. I sacrificed> > my
time that I normally used to chit chat with colleagues. But I still> > had fun
doing my lab since at the same time I played the Matrix or the> > Simpsons
next to my hyperterminal. And not to mention all those Linkin> > Park songs
that I used to play over and over continuously.> >> > And when you are
preparing for CCIE, be in the moment. Make a 6-months> > study plan but do one
thing at the time. If you haven't passed the> > written then do this as Step
0. If you haven't setup the lab then> > start reading documentation about the
emulator or search for the> > hardware on ebay. If you must deal with busy
schedule at work, try to> > have fun by read CCIE material in between your
busy time or steal some> > time by locking yourself inside the toilet and read
in there (I'm> > still doing this until now!). Feel every aspect of the
journey. Be> > grateful when you have even a very short time to make progress
in your> > study. And always try to enjoy every moment of it.> >> >> > Okay,
let's say you pass. You may ask: now what?> > Don't ask me. Ask yourself.> >>
> CCIE is just the beginning of a bigger journey. There are several> > other
CCIE tracks to chase or other exciting things to do in life such> > as working
in large scale project where you have to use all your> > technical skills
along with your ability to handle much complex> > situation. But frankly
speaking, until now I still haven't found> > another journey that could offer
such tense atmosphere, learning> > experience, wide coverage of technology
within short time, and fun all> > together outside CCIE. All the time was just
for me and my lab.> >> > As I wrote in my own post after I passed my 3rd lab:>
> CCIE was the only time when the world makes sense.> >> > Have fun,
everyone.> >> >
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