From: Gary Duncanson (gary.duncanson@googlemail.com)
Date: Wed Feb 27 2008 - 19:44:24 ARST
Fair comment Ronnie.
Rgds
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronnie Angello" <ronnie.angello@gmail.com>
To: "Scott Vermillion" <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>
Cc: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>; "Darren Johnson"
<dazza_johnson@yahoo.co.uk>; "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Unassigned CCIE query.
> It's all about the direction that you want your career to go in. For me,
> I'm currently in the Operations/Support business. I feel like the CCIE
> is the top of the food chain. Granted, having CCIE
> R&S/Sec/SP/Voice/Storage
> would make you the ultimate support god. The CCIE doesn't really focus on
> design concepts, but more on configuration and troubleshooting as we all
> know.
>
> The CCDE however, focuses on design best practices and not so much
> configuration commands and troubleshooting. In fact, there will be no
> gear
> involved in the CCDE practical exam. It's also doesn't focus on Cisco
> solutions alone but is supposed to be a vendor neutral cert.
>
> So in my opinion, it all depends on what your career path is. Do you like
> to live in the routers, switches, firewalls, CNRs, Call Manager, etc. or
> would you rather just design solutions and pass them down for
> implementation? I think both certs are (or will be) of equal value... but
> I
> sure wouldn't mind being one of the first with both!
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Scott Vermillion
> <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>
> wrote:
>
>> LOL Joe, I did see that "strong CCNA" post. And, in that same vein, I
>> recently posted my resume to Monster but clearly indicated in my profile
>> that I am a contract worker who will travel but not relocate. I have
>> been
>> inundated with queries as to my willingness to move to (fill in the
>> blank)
>> and work shifts in some NOC. Often, the requirement for the position,
>> certification-wise, is "CCNA/CCNP/CCIE." As if they were all pretty much
>> the same damned thing!??
>>
>> I have never worked with recruiters in my life (and that was not the
>> intent
>> I had when posting my resume up - rather, I'm trying to get some hits
>> from
>> organizations searching for CCIEs in my area or who are willing to
>> travel).
>> I had no idea what pond scum these losers turn out to be. Talk about
>> LAZY.
>> If the top-paid recruiter (at least out of those who have been in touch
>> with
>> me) were to earn $20k/year, it'd be about $15k too much!
>>
>> But I digress...
>>
>> Back to the value of the CCIE (which I guess isn't strictly speaking on
>> topic either, but close enough):
>>
>> It's clear that Cisco views the new CCDE as top dog. It has been taken
>> down
>> from every site that I have been able to locate (at either Cisco's
>> request
>> or insistence, I'm not sure which), but there was recently an interview
>> with
>> some female Cisco employee who worked inside of the certification
>> program.
>> She made clear that, although the CCIE and CCDE were both expert-level
>> certifications, the CCDE was going to be an order of magnitude more
>> difficult to obtain and would in practice be a level up in the hierarchy.
>> She spoke of the CCIE almost disparagingly. No wonder that interview was
>> made to disappear so quickly!
>>
>> My limited personal experience thus far has been that the CCIE is
>> valuable
>> and adds to your luster. I have been contacted regarding opportunities
>> that
>> were not being made available to me prior to certification. However,
>> it's
>> thus far really done nothing for my consulting business, as organizations
>> generally want to gobble up CCIEs all to themselves as W2 wage earners
>> (often to meet these channel requirements or just to add to their own
>> luster
>> in the eyes of their own clients). I suppose time will tell as to the
>> longer-term impact of both the CCDE and the growth of the CCIE program
>> itself. In the mean time, I do personally perceive that the channel
>> requirements are our friends in terms of sustaining our value in the
>> overall
>> marketplace.
>>
>> And I continue to work on my rather rusty IS-IS skills as part of my new
>> SP
>> endeavors. LOL...
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Joseph Brunner
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:32 AM
>> To: 'Scott Vermillion'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
>> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>>
>> That's fair, I agree.
>>
>> But what I'm saying is the $100k offered to CCIE's is often inadequate (I
>> mean come on, its nearly impossible to support a family on that income
>> nowadays almost anywhere without being in debt)
>>
>> So what the guy needs is an extra $50k a year. What we should be talking
>> about is what the hell happened that he can't just get $170k a year or
>> more
>> and just relax.
>>
>> I'll tell you...
>>
>> The value of someone who knows what they are doing just isn't there
>> anymore... Did you see my post a couple of weeks back "CCIE required or
>> will
>> consider a STRONG CCNA" from a dice post.
>>
>> The value of the CCIE has decreased because IT is quickly losing its
>> value
>> to businesses (even though they need it).
>>
>> If you are out there, please, NRF, tell us again why IT will all be
>> outshored to India very soon and that companies no longer have "in house
>> electricians"...
>>
>> -Joe
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Scott Vermillion
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 1:22 PM
>> To: 'Joseph Brunner'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
>> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>>
>> Of course there always exists a way to cheat the system (just like the
>> lab
>> or the written) if someone is truly determined Joe. But the CCIE
>> requirement for partners is meant to ensure high standards in the channel
>> program. I believe that it's one of the few things still keeping CCIE
>> salaries high, as there are hiring organizations out there that
>> absolutely
>> *must* retain CCIEs to keep their businesses viable. If what you propose
>> were to become common, then CCIE salaries likely _would_ drop to the $50k
>> mark, as rather than actually needing to hire them at $100k+, they could
>> just go out and do this end-around on the program requirements and never
>> actually hire any CCIEs with the intent that they act in a senior network
>> engineering role. I think the symbiosis here between CCIEs and channel
>> partners has to be respected or we all suffer (whether or not we
>> personally
>> chose to work for one)...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Joseph Brunner
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:08 AM
>> To: 'Scott Vermillion'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
>> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>>
>> This doesn't really matter, and does not prove anything.
>>
>> The GOLD PARNTER can just pay someone say $50,000 on a W2 as a CCIE and
>> for
>> that I agree to let them USE my number, and do at least 1 conference call
>> with their clients each month. There would be no way to tell how many
>> hours
>> the guy was there...
>>
>> That seems like fair use to me... How about you guys?
>>
>> Therefore, I am an employee. The deal is I'm never there, yet I still get
>> paid. They get a CCIE's number for their roster and a low salary no sane
>> CCIE would work for...
>>
>> ?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Scott Vermillion
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 12:51 PM
>> To: 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
>> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>>
>> Hey Darren,
>>
>> The bottom line is that you cannot do what you're proposing. Last time
>> this
>> came up, I (or somebody - maybe it wasn't be after all) went and found
>> the
>> audit rules for partner status. Those made very, very clear that any
>> CCIE
>> numbers being used for partner status had to be *full-time* regular
>> employees and that (IIRC), the auditor could review payroll records, etc,
>> to
>> validate that the CCIE was an active, daily participant in the business.
>>
>> I'm in the same situation. I work independently and thus my number
>> floats.
>> I don't really want to work in a partner/reseller environment, though, so
>> that aspect of my number holds no value. Oh well...
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Darren Johnson
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 10:41 AM
>> To: 'Cisco certification'
>> Subject: Unassigned CCIE query.
>>
>> Hey all. As per my post last week, I passed the lab and now have an
>> unassigned CCIE number (I paid for study and lab myself). I'm now in a
>> position where I'm weighing up my options. Is it possible to 'rent' out
>> my
>> CCIE number to a company, whilst still remaining employed by my present
>> employer? I have heard of rentacert.com but people seemed skeptical of
>> it.
>>
>> Let me stress, I DO NOT WANT TO VIOLATE ANY CISCO POLICIES and if renting
>> out a cert is doing so, I WILL NOT DO IT. However, if it is
>> possible/legal
>> and people out there do it, can they kindly explain how it works. I want
>> to
>> get as much value out of my cert as possible.
>>
>> Thanks for ANY advice
>>
>> Darren
>> #20078
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Ronald Angello
> CCIE #17846
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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