From: Rich Collins (nilsi2002@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Feb 28 2008 - 13:08:27 ARST
I'd like to just comment on the recruiters mixing CCNA and CCIE
requirements.
A few years back I got passed up by a recruiter who took a candidate with
the CCIE Written but no other Cisco certifications. The recruiter said that
she "was told" to rate that higher than my certifications CCNP/CCDP.
On another job I did get selected although they really wanted a CCIE.
Looking back I think that would have been really overkill. The applicable
network part had no active routing or particular security requirements. The
trickiest part was some more advanced HSRP.
But then I have met other recruiters who really knew what the experience and
certification match works out to be.
-Rich
On 2/27/08, Gary Duncanson <gary.duncanson@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Fair comment Ronnie.
>
> Rgds
> Gary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ronnie Angello" <ronnie.angello@gmail.com>
> To: "Scott Vermillion" <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>
> Cc: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>; "Darren Johnson"
> <dazza_johnson@yahoo.co.uk>; "Cisco certification" <ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
>
> > It's all about the direction that you want your career to go in. For
> me,
> > I'm currently in the Operations/Support business. I feel like the CCIE
> > is the top of the food chain. Granted, having CCIE
> > R&S/Sec/SP/Voice/Storage
> > would make you the ultimate support god. The CCIE doesn't really focus
> on
> > design concepts, but more on configuration and troubleshooting as we all
> > know.
> >
> > The CCDE however, focuses on design best practices and not so much
> > configuration commands and troubleshooting. In fact, there will be no
> > gear
> > involved in the CCDE practical exam. It's also doesn't focus on Cisco
> > solutions alone but is supposed to be a vendor neutral cert.
> >
> > So in my opinion, it all depends on what your career path is. Do you
> like
> > to live in the routers, switches, firewalls, CNRs, Call Manager, etc. or
> > would you rather just design solutions and pass them down for
> > implementation? I think both certs are (or will be) of equal value...
> but
> > I
> > sure wouldn't mind being one of the first with both!
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Scott Vermillion
> > <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> LOL Joe, I did see that "strong CCNA" post. And, in that same vein, I
> >> recently posted my resume to Monster but clearly indicated in my
> profile
> >> that I am a contract worker who will travel but not relocate. I have
> >> been
> >> inundated with queries as to my willingness to move to (fill in the
> >> blank)
> >> and work shifts in some NOC. Often, the requirement for the position,
> >> certification-wise, is "CCNA/CCNP/CCIE." As if they were all pretty
> much
> >> the same damned thing!??
> >>
> >> I have never worked with recruiters in my life (and that was not the
> >> intent
> >> I had when posting my resume up - rather, I'm trying to get some hits
> >> from
> >> organizations searching for CCIEs in my area or who are willing to
> >> travel).
> >> I had no idea what pond scum these losers turn out to be. Talk about
> >> LAZY.
> >> If the top-paid recruiter (at least out of those who have been in touch
> >> with
> >> me) were to earn $20k/year, it'd be about $15k too much!
> >>
> >> But I digress...
> >>
> >> Back to the value of the CCIE (which I guess isn't strictly speaking on
> >> topic either, but close enough):
> >>
> >> It's clear that Cisco views the new CCDE as top dog. It has been taken
> >> down
> >> from every site that I have been able to locate (at either Cisco's
> >> request
> >> or insistence, I'm not sure which), but there was recently an interview
> >> with
> >> some female Cisco employee who worked inside of the certification
> >> program.
> >> She made clear that, although the CCIE and CCDE were both expert-level
> >> certifications, the CCDE was going to be an order of magnitude more
> >> difficult to obtain and would in practice be a level up in the
> hierarchy.
> >> She spoke of the CCIE almost disparagingly. No wonder that interview
> was
> >> made to disappear so quickly!
> >>
> >> My limited personal experience thus far has been that the CCIE is
> >> valuable
> >> and adds to your luster. I have been contacted regarding opportunities
> >> that
> >> were not being made available to me prior to certification. However,
> >> it's
> >> thus far really done nothing for my consulting business, as
> organizations
> >> generally want to gobble up CCIEs all to themselves as W2 wage earners
> >> (often to meet these channel requirements or just to add to their own
> >> luster
> >> in the eyes of their own clients). I suppose time will tell as to the
> >> longer-term impact of both the CCDE and the growth of the CCIE program
> >> itself. In the mean time, I do personally perceive that the channel
> >> requirements are our friends in terms of sustaining our value in the
> >> overall
> >> marketplace.
> >>
> >> And I continue to work on my rather rusty IS-IS skills as part of my
> new
> >> SP
> >> endeavors. LOL...
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Joseph Brunner
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:32 AM
> >> To: 'Scott Vermillion'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> >> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >>
> >> That's fair, I agree.
> >>
> >> But what I'm saying is the $100k offered to CCIE's is often inadequate
> (I
> >> mean come on, its nearly impossible to support a family on that income
> >> nowadays almost anywhere without being in debt)
> >>
> >> So what the guy needs is an extra $50k a year. What we should be
> talking
> >> about is what the hell happened that he can't just get $170k a year or
> >> more
> >> and just relax.
> >>
> >> I'll tell you...
> >>
> >> The value of someone who knows what they are doing just isn't there
> >> anymore... Did you see my post a couple of weeks back "CCIE required or
> >> will
> >> consider a STRONG CCNA" from a dice post.
> >>
> >> The value of the CCIE has decreased because IT is quickly losing its
> >> value
> >> to businesses (even though they need it).
> >>
> >> If you are out there, please, NRF, tell us again why IT will all be
> >> outshored to India very soon and that companies no longer have "in
> house
> >> electricians"...
> >>
> >> -Joe
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Scott Vermillion
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 1:22 PM
> >> To: 'Joseph Brunner'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> >> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >>
> >> Of course there always exists a way to cheat the system (just like the
> >> lab
> >> or the written) if someone is truly determined Joe. But the CCIE
> >> requirement for partners is meant to ensure high standards in the
> channel
> >> program. I believe that it's one of the few things still keeping CCIE
> >> salaries high, as there are hiring organizations out there that
> >> absolutely
> >> *must* retain CCIEs to keep their businesses viable. If what you
> propose
> >> were to become common, then CCIE salaries likely _would_ drop to the
> $50k
> >> mark, as rather than actually needing to hire them at $100k+, they
> could
> >> just go out and do this end-around on the program requirements and
> never
> >> actually hire any CCIEs with the intent that they act in a senior
> network
> >> engineering role. I think the symbiosis here between CCIEs and channel
> >> partners has to be respected or we all suffer (whether or not we
> >> personally
> >> chose to work for one)...
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Joseph Brunner
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:08 AM
> >> To: 'Scott Vermillion'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> >> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >>
> >> This doesn't really matter, and does not prove anything.
> >>
> >> The GOLD PARNTER can just pay someone say $50,000 on a W2 as a CCIE and
> >> for
> >> that I agree to let them USE my number, and do at least 1 conference
> call
> >> with their clients each month. There would be no way to tell how many
> >> hours
> >> the guy was there...
> >>
> >> That seems like fair use to me... How about you guys?
> >>
> >> Therefore, I am an employee. The deal is I'm never there, yet I still
> get
> >> paid. They get a CCIE's number for their roster and a low salary no
> sane
> >> CCIE would work for...
> >>
> >> ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Scott Vermillion
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 12:51 PM
> >> To: 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> >> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >>
> >> Hey Darren,
> >>
> >> The bottom line is that you cannot do what you're proposing. Last time
> >> this
> >> came up, I (or somebody - maybe it wasn't be after all) went and found
> >> the
> >> audit rules for partner status. Those made very, very clear that any
> >> CCIE
> >> numbers being used for partner status had to be *full-time* regular
> >> employees and that (IIRC), the auditor could review payroll records,
> etc,
> >> to
> >> validate that the CCIE was an active, daily participant in the
> business.
> >>
> >> I'm in the same situation. I work independently and thus my number
> >> floats.
> >> I don't really want to work in a partner/reseller environment, though,
> so
> >> that aspect of my number holds no value. Oh well...
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Darren Johnson
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 10:41 AM
> >> To: 'Cisco certification'
> >> Subject: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >>
> >> Hey all. As per my post last week, I passed the lab and now have an
> >> unassigned CCIE number (I paid for study and lab myself). I'm now in a
> >> position where I'm weighing up my options. Is it possible to 'rent' out
> >> my
> >> CCIE number to a company, whilst still remaining employed by my present
> >> employer? I have heard of rentacert.com but people seemed skeptical of
> >> it.
> >>
> >> Let me stress, I DO NOT WANT TO VIOLATE ANY CISCO POLICIES and if
> renting
> >> out a cert is doing so, I WILL NOT DO IT. However, if it is
> >> possible/legal
> >> and people out there do it, can they kindly explain how it works. I
> want
> >> to
> >> get as much value out of my cert as possible.
> >>
> >> Thanks for ANY advice
> >>
> >> Darren
> >> #20078
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___________________________________________________________
> >> Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to
> use"
> >> The Wall Street Journal
> >> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >>
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ronald Angello
> > CCIE #17846
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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