From: Darby Weaver (darbyweaver@yahoo.com)
Date: Thu Dec 06 2007 - 16:27:22 ART
And then we have the question of freshly minted CCIE's
who wonder how to handle an interview.
1. If I'm interested in any interview - I study for
it.
2. If I'm not interested or change my mind, I let a
few simple questions slip.
Easy equation really.
But how do you forget the stuff you have your hands on
the keyboard with for over 500-1000 hours with so
quickly in real life? Just learning aliases and
remembering them ought to keep basic commands in long
term memory for a couple of years or so. Anyone still
remember DOS or Unix CLI?
I still remember details from nearly every network I
ever touched and things I did to PC's back in the day
- over 10 years ago...
Hmmm...
The truth is many do not quite study as hard as we all
would like people to think we did. I find that
anything I've labbed pretty much sticks or it sticks
after I've had the chance to dig into it. Sometimes I
may choke on a word here and there, but for the most
part I know how it works at a decent level.
I drop 16-24 hours on a lab - I remeber it for a long
time. I mean debugging, using show commands to verify
my work, and generally trying to understand the
issues. Now I can say honestly, I'll come back to a
given lab and ask myself, what if questions, and after
I lab them, I still sometimes things I've missed. But
overall if someone asks me how to setup an OSPF
Network with multiple areas, vlinks, authentication,
modify metrics, elections etc. I can do most of this
off the top of my head and I hope I still can for a
while after I finish the lab - even if I'm not doing
it every day. Now trivia may or may not stick unless
I study it as "trivia aka questions and answers".
Now if I just copy what I read into a router - it may
not stay that long. I can admit it. :)
--- Narbik Kocharians <narbikk@gmail.com> wrote:
> YEP.
>
> On 12/5/07, Alexei Monastyrnyi
> <alexeim@orcsoftware.com> wrote:
> >
> > Narbik, you can say that again, mate!
> >
> > If one knows the ropes, it doesn't matter what
> number he/she has...
> > Speaking numbers, in Sweden it was 91 CCIEs when I
> passed a year ago,
> > now it is 88... CCIE brain drain is less likely
> here, so some ppl just
> > abandoned it for some reasons... :-)
> >
> > A.
> >
> > on 12/5/2007 10:44 PM Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> > > Guys check out the stats:
> > >
> > > *Total of Worldwide CCIEs:* *15658* (last
> updated 11.14.2007)
> > > Besides how many doctors or lawyers do we have?
> Are they all worried?
> > Why
> > > would you worry about a thing like that? Forget
> these things and focus
> > on
> > > your studies, if every Med student thought the
> way you guys are
> > thinking,
> > > the Med fac. will be empty.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 12/5/07, Gary Duncanson
> <gary.duncanson@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >> It's back..
> > >>
> > >> The 'fear' is back in town. How many have
> passed this year?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Darby Weaver" <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > >> To: <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>;
> <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:17 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: OT: magic numbers
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Actually Cindy you only refer to the ones who
> post
> > >>> here on GS.
> > >>>
> > >>> There were at least another 25 since the
> people got
> > >>> their magical email notices on Saturday
> morning.
> > >>>
> > >>> So...
> > >>>
> > >>> The numbers are going and going very fast it
> seems.
> > >>>
> > >>> What is truly significant is the number of
> first time
> > >>> passers and the number of people who have
> achieved
> > >>> multiple CCIE's in as many months. Some
> CCIE's take a
> > >>> couple of years to attain a single CCIE, I've
> read
> > >>> some who achieve their first CCIE in 3-6
> months or so
> > >>> they claim. Others who attain multiple CCIE's
> and now
> > >>> have triple or quad status in less than 6
> months or so
> > >>> after achieving the 1st CCIE.
> > >>>
> > >>> Let's face it - with COD/VOD materials
> available for
> > >>> nearly every imaginable scenario. With
> Dynamips on
> > >>> every aspiring CCNA's desktop...
> > >>>
> > >>> The CCIE is not going to be as "black magic"
> as it
> > >>> once was and it is not because the material is
> any
> > >>> less difficult, indeed, it has perhaps
> magnified many
> > >>> times since its inception. I still recall
> the
> > >>> written testimonies of a CCIE trainer or two
> who first
> > >>> took the 1-Day lab and failed... and these
> were guys
> > >>> who write the books and who use a lot of these
> > >>> technologies on a daily basis.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> But hey there are a lot of good materials
> available
> > >>> these days. Lots of excellent instructors as
> well.
> > >>> Many are on this list. Some are elsewhere on
> other
> > >>> lists and forums spread over the wide
> Internet.
> > >>>
> > >>> But their lists of passing CCIE's (combines)
> is short
> > >>> compared to the number of passing CCIE's we
> are seeing
> > >>> in total who are unannounced here, but are
> elsewhere.
> > >>>
> > >>> I, personally, keep alert in a few corners of
> this
> > >>> planet where CCIE Study groups are to be
> found, from
> > >>> Poland, to Saudi Arabia, to Pakistan, China,
> Korea,
> > >>> Japan, Germany, and so many many places in
> between. I
> > >>> can guarantee you there are a lot of people
> studying
> > >>> and working very hard to get past this little
> monster.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Of course the Asian study lists/groups are
> working
> > >>> overtime producing CCIE level candidates as
> well.
> > >>>
> > >>> Dubai (the city of technology) is passing
> quite a few
> > >>> lab candidates.
> > >>>
> > >>> And let's not forget many of the people
> studying who
> > >>> are passing did not wake up last week and
> start
> > >>> studying. Many have worked for years to earn
> a CCIE.
> > >>>
> > >>> Caslow's checklists helped.
> > >>>
> > >>> NLI/Narbik's Soup to Nuts helped.
> > >>>
> > >>> Jeremy and his CBT Nuggets made CCIE Video
> > >>> Step-by-Step a reality.
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott Morris, the Brians, and Netmasterclass
> > >>> capitalized on the idea and made nearly every
> CCIE
> > >>> trick a quick 30 minutes to 4 hours away from
> > >>> everyone.
> > >>>
> > >>> Word is Narbik will be offering a similar
> video
> > >>> offering very soon as well based on his
> workbooks and
> > >>> the famous Soup to Nuts product.
> > >>>
> > >>> H.U has his techniques that are simply amazing
> in the
> > >>> manner he prepares his students.
> > >>>
> > >>> Cisco Expert hand prepares their students - 2
> CCIE's
> > >>> on one is what I here.
> > >>>
> > >>> Kuwar Bhutt is also a notable CCIE (multiple
> CCIE's)
> > >>> who has a team of CCIE's who train people in
> the
> > >>> Middle Eastern region.
> > >>>
> > >>> FastLane and another training company in
> Europe are
> > >>> famous for their programs.
> > >>>
> > >>> Global Knowledge is worldwide as is Skyline as
> I
> > >>> recall.
> > >>>
> > >>> InternetworkExpert offered a similar approach
> and with
> > >>> Brian Dennis as your co-pilot, I can imagine
> the
> > >>> possibilities are exceptional.
> > >>>
> > >>> Tarun is training people and having a
> Quintuple as a
> > >>> trainer can never ever be a bad thing.
> > >>>
> > >>> NLI offers their executive study program.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Paul Borghese, the owner of this list, offers
> a
> > >>> guaranteed program of study - step by step -
> issue by
> > >>> issue.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> The Cathay School of China offers an 18 day
> program.
> > >>>
> > >>> A similar school in India does the same. At
> least one
> > >>> or two.
> > >>>
> > >>> The Wolfe School is China is also exceptional
> it seems
> > >>> and there must be at least a dozen more
> notable CCIE
> > >>> Schools.
> > >>>
> > >>> There are a lot more where all these guys come
> from.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I gotta feel bad, English is my native
> language. The
> > >>> lab is in English, and can be tricky at that,
> and
> > >>> people who have trouble speaking English or
> reading
> > >>> English are passing a test with objectives in
> very
> > >>> explicit English.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> So with probably over about 100 companies (and
> each
> > >>> company has on average at least 3 CCIE's and
> some have
> > >>> a lot more) giving training at least once a
> week to
> > >>> about 5-7 students on average per class, not
> counting
> > >>> distance learners; is it any wonder that
> CCIE's are
> > >>> passing faster than MCSE's.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Hey it is a law of diminishing returns. Or
> was before
> > >>> Dynamips and PEMU got released.
> > >>>
> > >>> Now a CCIE can train for little more than the
> cost of
> > >>> a laptop. And do so many times more
> efficiently as I
> > >>> understand it. Saving configs and "images" of
> entire
> > >>> labs and coming back at will.
> > >>>
> > >>> What's more those same images are shared and
> so the
> > >>> work of one person is shared by all -
> INSTANTLY. It's
> > >>> electronic and the byte travels fast - no QoS
> and
> > >>> filters can stop this now.
> > >>>
> > >>> So a candidate need not even know how to setup
> a rack
> > >>> to get started.
> > >>>
> > >>> And many are able just to learn their configs
> by heart
> > >>> and if they can afford a seat aka the lotto
> ticket.
> > >>> They buy it and try to pass "GO".
> > >>>
> > >>> As I type a full racks' completed configs...
> and if
> > >>> there are say 10 pages of commands or even 20
> pages of
> > >>> commands... per lab.
> > >>>
> > >>> Not too much for a gifted and motivated person
> on a
> > >>> help desk somewhere to learn quick enough to
> get a big
> > >>> break.
> > >>>
> > >>> I expect we will see a saturation point where
> nearly
> > >>> every lab candidate passes the lab on the 1st
> time
> > >>> somewhere in the 2008 year. The exotic labs
> are soon
> > >>> to follow the same fate. After all the guys
> who
> > >>> passed easily are done with one CCIE, they
> will seek
> > >>> multiple CCIE status - or at least a
> percentage will.
> > >>>
> > >>> So if there are 100 seats, there will be 97
> people
> > >>> passing a given lab on that day - even 1st
> timers.
> > >>>
> > >>> Now if there are more seats, there will be
> more CCIE's
> > >>> per day as well.
> > >>>
> > >>> So right now at 25 CCIE's per day versus say
> 100 per
> > >>> month in previous years, is only the beginning
> of a
> > >>> permanent trend.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ==============================================
> > >>> There is a solution and a relatively easy one:
> > >>> ==============================================
> > >>>
> > >>> Personally - I'd say bring back the physical
> rack
> > >>> configuration and the IP Scheming as the new
> theme for
> > >>> 2008. And the terminal server too...
> > >>>
> > >>> It's the only way left to keep the lab(s)
> worth its
> > >>> perceived value.
> > >>>
> > >>> And somehow maybe fit into a one-day format
> would be
> > >>> nice but given the amount of current
> candidates -
> > >>> there will be little loss of newly minted
> CCIE's even
> > >>> if it were two days in length again.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Of course this is from a person taking the lab
> for a
> > >>> 4th trip, so take my words with a grain of
> salt and
> > >>> the ideas mentioned would likely affect me as
> well.
> > >>> So I'd be as much the victim of my idea (which
> is not
> > >>> new) as newbies.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --- cindy tanner <cindy.a.tanner@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Experts,
> > >>>> As I study and watch the messages go by, I
> have
> > >>>> noticed that numbers 19499
> > >>>> and 19519 seem to have occurred on the same
> day. Is
> > >>>> Cisco turning out 20
> > >>>> CCIEs per day? I assumed Cisco assigned
> numbers
> > >>>> sequentially - maybe this
> > >>>> is not the case? Anybody know?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cindy
> > >>>> cindy.a.tanner@gmail.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> >
>
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