From: Narbik Kocharians (narbikk@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Dec 06 2007 - 19:05:33 ART
HAHAHAHA, don't worry they will be fine
On Dec 6, 2007 11:27 AM, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com> wrote:
> And then we have the question of freshly minted CCIE's
> who wonder how to handle an interview.
>
> 1. If I'm interested in any interview - I study for
> it.
>
> 2. If I'm not interested or change my mind, I let a
> few simple questions slip.
>
> Easy equation really.
>
> But how do you forget the stuff you have your hands on
> the keyboard with for over 500-1000 hours with so
> quickly in real life? Just learning aliases and
> remembering them ought to keep basic commands in long
> term memory for a couple of years or so. Anyone still
> remember DOS or Unix CLI?
>
>
> I still remember details from nearly every network I
> ever touched and things I did to PC's back in the day
> - over 10 years ago...
>
> Hmmm...
>
> The truth is many do not quite study as hard as we all
> would like people to think we did. I find that
> anything I've labbed pretty much sticks or it sticks
> after I've had the chance to dig into it. Sometimes I
> may choke on a word here and there, but for the most
> part I know how it works at a decent level.
>
> I drop 16-24 hours on a lab - I remeber it for a long
> time. I mean debugging, using show commands to verify
> my work, and generally trying to understand the
> issues. Now I can say honestly, I'll come back to a
> given lab and ask myself, what if questions, and after
> I lab them, I still sometimes things I've missed. But
> overall if someone asks me how to setup an OSPF
> Network with multiple areas, vlinks, authentication,
> modify metrics, elections etc. I can do most of this
> off the top of my head and I hope I still can for a
> while after I finish the lab - even if I'm not doing
> it every day. Now trivia may or may not stick unless
> I study it as "trivia aka questions and answers".
>
>
>
> Now if I just copy what I read into a router - it may
> not stay that long. I can admit it. :)
>
>
>
>
> --- Narbik Kocharians <narbikk@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > YEP.
> >
> > On 12/5/07, Alexei Monastyrnyi
> > <alexeim@orcsoftware.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Narbik, you can say that again, mate!
> > >
> > > If one knows the ropes, it doesn't matter what
> > number he/she has...
> > > Speaking numbers, in Sweden it was 91 CCIEs when I
> > passed a year ago,
> > > now it is 88... CCIE brain drain is less likely
> > here, so some ppl just
> > > abandoned it for some reasons... :-)
> > >
> > > A.
> > >
> > > on 12/5/2007 10:44 PM Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> > > > Guys check out the stats:
> > > >
> > > > *Total of Worldwide CCIEs:* *15658* (last
> > updated 11.14.2007)
> > > > Besides how many doctors or lawyers do we have?
> > Are they all worried?
> > > Why
> > > > would you worry about a thing like that? Forget
> > these things and focus
> > > on
> > > > your studies, if every Med student thought the
> > way you guys are
> > > thinking,
> > > > the Med fac. will be empty.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 12/5/07, Gary Duncanson
> > <gary.duncanson@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > >> It's back..
> > > >>
> > > >> The 'fear' is back in town. How many have
> > passed this year?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "Darby Weaver" <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > > >> To: <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>;
> > <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:17 PM
> > > >> Subject: Re: OT: magic numbers
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> Actually Cindy you only refer to the ones who
> > post
> > > >>> here on GS.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> There were at least another 25 since the
> > people got
> > > >>> their magical email notices on Saturday
> > morning.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So...
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The numbers are going and going very fast it
> > seems.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> What is truly significant is the number of
> > first time
> > > >>> passers and the number of people who have
> > achieved
> > > >>> multiple CCIE's in as many months. Some
> > CCIE's take a
> > > >>> couple of years to attain a single CCIE, I've
> > read
> > > >>> some who achieve their first CCIE in 3-6
> > months or so
> > > >>> they claim. Others who attain multiple CCIE's
> > and now
> > > >>> have triple or quad status in less than 6
> > months or so
> > > >>> after achieving the 1st CCIE.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Let's face it - with COD/VOD materials
> > available for
> > > >>> nearly every imaginable scenario. With
> > Dynamips on
> > > >>> every aspiring CCNA's desktop...
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The CCIE is not going to be as "black magic"
> > as it
> > > >>> once was and it is not because the material is
> > any
> > > >>> less difficult, indeed, it has perhaps
> > magnified many
> > > >>> times since its inception. I still recall
> > the
> > > >>> written testimonies of a CCIE trainer or two
> > who first
> > > >>> took the 1-Day lab and failed... and these
> > were guys
> > > >>> who write the books and who use a lot of these
> > > >>> technologies on a daily basis.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> But hey there are a lot of good materials
> > available
> > > >>> these days. Lots of excellent instructors as
> > well.
> > > >>> Many are on this list. Some are elsewhere on
> > other
> > > >>> lists and forums spread over the wide
> > Internet.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> But their lists of passing CCIE's (combines)
> > is short
> > > >>> compared to the number of passing CCIE's we
> > are seeing
> > > >>> in total who are unannounced here, but are
> > elsewhere.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I, personally, keep alert in a few corners of
> > this
> > > >>> planet where CCIE Study groups are to be
> > found, from
> > > >>> Poland, to Saudi Arabia, to Pakistan, China,
> > Korea,
> > > >>> Japan, Germany, and so many many places in
> > between. I
> > > >>> can guarantee you there are a lot of people
> > studying
> > > >>> and working very hard to get past this little
> > monster.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Of course the Asian study lists/groups are
> > working
> > > >>> overtime producing CCIE level candidates as
> > well.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Dubai (the city of technology) is passing
> > quite a few
> > > >>> lab candidates.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> And let's not forget many of the people
> > studying who
> > > >>> are passing did not wake up last week and
> > start
> > > >>> studying. Many have worked for years to earn
> > a CCIE.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Caslow's checklists helped.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> NLI/Narbik's Soup to Nuts helped.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Jeremy and his CBT Nuggets made CCIE Video
> > > >>> Step-by-Step a reality.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Scott Morris, the Brians, and Netmasterclass
> > > >>> capitalized on the idea and made nearly every
> > CCIE
> > > >>> trick a quick 30 minutes to 4 hours away from
> > > >>> everyone.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Word is Narbik will be offering a similar
> > video
> > > >>> offering very soon as well based on his
> > workbooks and
> > > >>> the famous Soup to Nuts product.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> H.U has his techniques that are simply amazing
> > in the
> > > >>> manner he prepares his students.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Cisco Expert hand prepares their students - 2
> > CCIE's
> > > >>> on one is what I here.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Kuwar Bhutt is also a notable CCIE (multiple
> > CCIE's)
> > > >>> who has a team of CCIE's who train people in
> > the
> > > >>> Middle Eastern region.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> FastLane and another training company in
> > Europe are
> > > >>> famous for their programs.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Global Knowledge is worldwide as is Skyline as
> > I
> > > >>> recall.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> InternetworkExpert offered a similar approach
> > and with
> > > >>> Brian Dennis as your co-pilot, I can imagine
> > the
> > > >>> possibilities are exceptional.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Tarun is training people and having a
> > Quintuple as a
> > > >>> trainer can never ever be a bad thing.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> NLI offers their executive study program.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Paul Borghese, the owner of this list, offers
> > a
> > > >>> guaranteed program of study - step by step -
> > issue by
> > > >>> issue.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The Cathay School of China offers an 18 day
> > program.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> A similar school in India does the same. At
> > least one
> > > >>> or two.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The Wolfe School is China is also exceptional
> > it seems
> > > >>> and there must be at least a dozen more
> > notable CCIE
> > > >>> Schools.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> There are a lot more where all these guys come
> > from.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I gotta feel bad, English is my native
> > language. The
> > > >>> lab is in English, and can be tricky at that,
> > and
> > > >>> people who have trouble speaking English or
> > reading
> > > >>> English are passing a test with objectives in
> > very
> > > >>> explicit English.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So with probably over about 100 companies (and
> > each
> > > >>> company has on average at least 3 CCIE's and
> > some have
> > > >>> a lot more) giving training at least once a
> > week to
> > > >>> about 5-7 students on average per class, not
> > counting
> > > >>> distance learners; is it any wonder that
> > CCIE's are
> > > >>> passing faster than MCSE's.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hey it is a law of diminishing returns. Or
> > was before
> > > >>> Dynamips and PEMU got released.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Now a CCIE can train for little more than the
> > cost of
> > > >>> a laptop. And do so many times more
> > efficiently as I
> > > >>> understand it. Saving configs and "images" of
> > entire
> > > >>> labs and coming back at will.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> What's more those same images are shared and
> > so the
> > > >>> work of one person is shared by all -
> > INSTANTLY. It's
> > > >>> electronic and the byte travels fast - no QoS
> > and
> > > >>> filters can stop this now.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So a candidate need not even know how to setup
> > a rack
> > > >>> to get started.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> And many are able just to learn their configs
> > by heart
> > > >>> and if they can afford a seat aka the lotto
> > ticket.
> > > >>> They buy it and try to pass "GO".
> > > >>>
> > > >>> As I type a full racks' completed configs...
> > and if
> > > >>> there are say 10 pages of commands or even 20
> > pages of
> > > >>> commands... per lab.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Not too much for a gifted and motivated person
> > on a
> > > >>> help desk somewhere to learn quick enough to
> > get a big
> > > >>> break.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I expect we will see a saturation point where
> > nearly
> > > >>> every lab candidate passes the lab on the 1st
> > time
> > > >>> somewhere in the 2008 year. The exotic labs
> > are soon
> > > >>> to follow the same fate. After all the guys
> > who
> > > >>> passed easily are done with one CCIE, they
> > will seek
> > > >>> multiple CCIE status - or at least a
> > percentage will.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So if there are 100 seats, there will be 97
> > people
> > > >>> passing a given lab on that day - even 1st
> > timers.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Now if there are more seats, there will be
> > more CCIE's
> > > >>> per day as well.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So right now at 25 CCIE's per day versus say
> > 100 per
> > > >>> month in previous years, is only the beginning
> > of a
> > > >>> permanent trend.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ==============================================
> > > >>> There is a solution and a relatively easy one:
> > > >>> ==============================================
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Personally - I'd say bring back the physical
> > rack
> > > >>> configuration and the IP Scheming as the new
> > theme for
> > > >>> 2008. And the terminal server too...
> > > >>>
> > > >>> It's the only way left to keep the lab(s)
> > worth its
> > > >>> perceived value.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> And somehow maybe fit into a one-day format
> > would be
> > > >>> nice but given the amount of current
> > candidates -
> > > >>> there will be little loss of newly minted
> > CCIE's even
> > > >>> if it were two days in length again.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Of course this is from a person taking the lab
> > for a
> > > >>> 4th trip, so take my words with a grain of
> > salt and
> > > >>> the ideas mentioned would likely affect me as
> > well.
> > > >>> So I'd be as much the victim of my idea (which
> > is not
> > > >>> new) as newbies.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --- cindy tanner <cindy.a.tanner@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Experts,
> > > >>>> As I study and watch the messages go by, I
> > have
> > > >>>> noticed that numbers 19499
> > > >>>> and 19519 seem to have occurred on the same
> > day. Is
> > > >>>> Cisco turning out 20
> > > >>>> CCIEs per day? I assumed Cisco assigned
> > numbers
> > > >>>> sequentially - maybe this
> > > >>>> is not the case? Anybody know?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Cindy
> > > >>>> cindy.a.tanner@gmail.com
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >>>
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >>
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > >> Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Narbik Kocharians
> > CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > CCSI# 30832
> > www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> > www.Net-WorkBooks.com <http://www.net-workbooks.com/>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
>
>
>
>
-- Narbik Kocharians CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security) CCSI# 30832 www.MicronicsTraining.com Sr. Technical Instructor www.Net-WorkBooks.com
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