From: Gary Duncanson (gary.duncanson@googlemail.com)
Date: Fri Jun 22 2007 - 05:59:02 ART
I guess that's why it's cisco certified internetwork expert as opposed to
cisco certified internetwork everything :)
Your story has been my experience in the field the last 10 years. Certainly
the CCIE doesn't make you an expert on company xyz's inter ISP policy
arrangements, or on data centre design, migration, co location and
integration and it is this that pays the bills. But it is more than theory.
It demonstrates an ability to work with a very large body of knowledge and
apply that in a complex practical setting under pressure with technical and
time constraints. To that end you do require an expert to forge a solution.
It should demonstrate to an employer a level of ability capable of getting
up to speed with a given scenario in the workplace. It also provides
insights in technology capabilities across the R&S space that you would
struggle to cover without the track by relying on the specific
infrastructure issues and topologies and policies and in some cases work
procedures you are constrained by at work. So does it cover everything?
Nope. But it certainly helps. Ally the IE to some hard core networking
experience and one complements the other pretty well. Hell, maybe even some
of the stuff that happens on the infrastructure may actually make some sense
:)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kraus (mikraus)" <mikraus@cisco.com>
To: "Jason Plank" <Jason_Plank@condenast.com>; "Scott Morris"
<smorris@ipexpert.com>; "Serdar Kut" <kutserdar@gmail.com>; "Narbik
Kocharians" <narbikk@gmail.com>
Cc: "Eric Dobyns" <eric_dobyns@yahoo.com>; "Digital Yemeni"
<digital.yemeni@gmail.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:58 AM
Subject: RE: Rumor mill time - Cat 6500 on R&S lab exam?
> Yes, customer/management perception is that a CCIE knows "everything".
> But, certainly we all know that doesn't hold water. You can have an IE
> in every track, and still not know anything about Cisco's ANS (ACE,
> WAAS, AVS) products or wireless for that matter.
>
> At one point I was interviewing for a chemical engineering internship,
> and while there the hiring manager told me that the key is to listen to
> the operators of the equipment. No, they didn't have a degree in
> chemical engineering nor did they know the theory. But, at the same
> time, they knew how things worked from years of experience.
>
> The CCIE is a theory based exam, and certainly is not meant to replace
> real-world experience. From a resume perspective, the certifications
> listed at the top prove you know the theory but your job history below
> proves that you know how to use the product.
>
> I know many CCIEs that no longer "turn the knobs". They simply add more
> value from a big picture perspective designing architectures, teaching,
> or in engineering roles. I guarantee you, I can find certain R&S IOS
> commands that I know and understand better than Scott Morris (I want to
> pick on him, just cause I know him!), but does that mean I understand
> the theory better? No, absolutely not, he has me beat hands-down!!
>
> At the same time, I know quite a few people who don't have any Cisco
> certs who make more than those who have CCIEs in similar roles! Why?
> Experience.
>
> (To state my position more clearly, since it is a theory based exam, I
> don't see a great value in putting in a 6500.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Plank [mailto:Jason_Plank@condenast.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 4:33 PM
> To: Scott Morris; 'Serdar Kut'; 'Narbik Kocharians'
> Cc: Mike Kraus (mikraus); 'Eric Dobyns'; 'Digital Yemeni';
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Rumor mill time - Cat 6500 on R&S lab exam?
>
> So you think it helps the value of the CCIE that it can produce a CCIE
> that knows NOTHING about a 6500? What is cisco's top product? What are
> you considered if you are a CCIE. Doesn't mesh in my mind.
>
> Totally disagree.
>
>
> On 6/21/07 1:38 PM, "Scott Morris" <smorris@ipexpert.com> wrote:
>
>> Should it matter?
>>
>> The CCIE tests your knowledge of technologies, not product.
>>
>> The stuff you can do with a 6500 at a basic switching technology level
>
>> isn't really any different than the switches we currently have. If we
>
>> start taking service modules, that's different, but that's a whole new
>
>> technology base.
>>
>> *shrug* HUGE expense difference not only for them to rollout, but
>> foreveryone to study!
>>
>>
>> Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
>> JNCIE #153, CISSP, et al.
>> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-J
>> VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
>> IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
>>
>> A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
>>
>> smorris@ipexpert.com
>>
>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>> Fax: +1.810.454.0130
>> http://www.ipexpert.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>> Of Serdar Kut
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 4:55 AM
>> To: Narbik Kocharians
>> Cc: Mike Kraus (mikraus); Eric Dobyns; Digital Yemeni;
>> ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: Re: Rumor mill time - Cat 6500 on R&S lab exam?
>>
>> I actually agree with Narbik..It is a big shame not to be aware of
>> 6500 and 4500 chasis and config tricks for a CCIE I think. And also,
>> as a CCIE, most of time I deal with big chasis, not much with 3560s or
> less.
>> It should be good I think
>>
>>
>>
>> Serdar Kut
>> CCIE#18130
>>
>>
>> On 6/20/07, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually i hope they do that, because that would be the closest thing
>
>>> to the real world. No matter where you go these days, you see at
>>> least one 6500 series up and running. I think it would benefit the
> program.
>>> You may see a 3560 here and there, but you will definitely see a lot
>>> of firms having 6500 series. To be honest i typically see a mixture
>>> of 4000/4500 and a 6500 in a collapsed core design.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/19/07, Mike Kraus (mikraus) <mikraus@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Not sure of the point of that in the R&S lab.... Really don't see
>>>> them starting to test on the service modules on the 6500 in the R&S.
>>>> And, in many cases the 3560 has greater feature velocity. So, it
>>>> would cost the CCIE program more money, a more rack space, but
>>>> doesn't really give them many more test topics.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>
>>>> Of Eric Dobyns
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 6:30 PM
>>>> To: 'Digital Yemeni'; 'Narbik Kocharians'
>>>> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>>> Subject: RE: Rumor mill time - Cat 6500 on R&S lab exam?
>>>>
>>>> I believe you have a 3550 and 3 3650 all running L3, which basically
>
>>>> means you've got 13 routers to deal with.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>
>>>> Of Digital Yemeni
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:49 PM
>>>> To: Narbik Kocharians
>>>> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>>> Subject: Re: Rumor mill time - Cat 6500 on R&S lab exam?
>>>>
>>>> nope nope! Cisco has recently faced some severe budget limitations
>>>> and brought back the 2500s and L2 1900 switches!! :p
>>>>
>>>> Brad, since you're a Cisco Sponsored Organization, the confirmation
>>>> (not the
>>>> question!) should come from you isn't it? ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/20/07, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I heard 85xx and 12xxx
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/19/07, Brad Ellis <brad@ccbootcamp.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone else hear this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> Brad Ellis
>>>>>> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
>>>>>> CCSI#30482
>>>>>> Network Learning Inc - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO) YES!
>>>>>> We take Cisco Learning credits!
>>>>>> brad@ccbootcamp.com
>>>>>> http://www.ccbootcamp.com (Cisco Training and Advanced Technology
>>>>>> Rental
>>>>>> Racks)
>>>>>> Toll Free: 877-NLI-CCIE (877-654-2243) Outside USA: 702-968-5100
>>>>>> FAX: 702-446-8012
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> ____ ___ Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>>>> CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>> CCSI# 30832
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>> ____ _ Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards!
>>>> Digital, CCIE# to be assigned by Cisco when it collects enough $$
>>>> out of me!
>>>> :p
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>>> ___ Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>>> ___ Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>> CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>> CCSI# 30832
>>>
>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>> _ _ Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> _ Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> _ Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> --
> Jason Plank, CCIE# 16560
> Senior Network Engineer
> Conde Nast Publications
> 1201 North Market St.
> Wilmington, DE 19808
> Email: Jason_Plank@CondeNast.com
> Office: 302-830-4910
> Cell: 302-290-0387
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
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