From: Narbik Kocharians (narbikk@gmail.com)
Date: Tue Apr 17 2007 - 09:36:06 ART
Let's say you purchased the labs and they were NOT so real, where would you
go to ask for a refund?
On 4/17/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> Bsides if your friend spends $1200 for "real labs" -
> she's getting jacked anyway - didn't she read GS...
>
> They are on ebay for like $50.00 or something.
>
> Dude the guys who sell "real labs" have competition.
>
> I guess you can't really copyright stolen material in
> the first place.
>
> Besides, how can she be sure about what is a "real
> lab" and what is not a "real lab". And as one said if
> it in not the whole lab then what is the point anyway.
>
> And if it is Cisco and they are tracking you, you may
> fail anyway - even if you pass.
>
> I have hundreds of "real labs" and I say hundreds due
> to versioning but you get my point. So what is a real
> lab?
>
> Next thing you know you'll get junk mail in your
> mailbox at home "Real Labs for $1.00".
>
> What if we just posted questions and scenarios the
> study group day in and day out? Kinda like we do now,
> wouldn't those be "real questions".
>
> Where does it start and where does it end?
>
> The univercd is free and there are a load of reputable
> vendors who sell real labs with detailed solutions
> that are in English - the language of the lab.
>
> "there's no shortcut to success and don't waste time
> looking for them." - Colin Powell
>
>
>
>
> --- Usman Ali <usman198@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello ,
> >
> > I can not understand how Indian training institutes
> > offering guarantee
> > to pass CCIE in 2nd attempt and they are offering
> > this in a pakage of
> > some 6000 $ , that is a Banglore base institute . I
> > personally know 2
> > people who could not pass in Belgium then they go
> > india and pass CCIE
> > with in 2-3 months .
> > Why not cisco close down that kind of centers at
> > least 2 in Asia (India
> > and china).
> > When i compare that 6000 $ expense which is nothing
> > !!!!!!!!!!!!with
> > mine which is more than 10000$ in Last 3 years and
> > hardworking and
> > still i have to appear and pass CCIE.
> >
> > Bye
> >
> > Usman Ali
> >
> > Darby Weaver wrote:
> > > ok 40 hours - it's the red in my eyes - ooops...
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> "40 years of CCIE training per year"??? :)
> > Sounds
> > >> like you've been
> > >> working too hard!
> > >>
> > >> It may seem like years, but only days go by!
> > (grin)
> > >>
> > >> Every year or so, we always have similar
> > >> discussions... We're still here
> > >> though!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> > >> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > >> Darby Weaver
> > >> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 8:54 AM
> > >> To: Lab Dude
> > >> Cc: Dan C; Usman Ali; Anthony Bonilla; CCIEwnaB;
> > >> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > >> Subject: Re: Why not to use the "real ccie lab"
> > >> folks
> > >>
> > >> Why unfair to those who passed before and why are
> > >> they wimps?
> > >>
> > >> They had to take the lab of their day and it was
> > a
> > >> challenge.
> > >>
> > >> The community as a whole has grown by leaps and
> > >> bounds since the first CCIE
> > >> till today.
> > >>
> > >> I can assure you the CCIE's who took the lab 10
> > >> years ago had their work cut
> > >> out for them then as we do now.
> > >>
> > >> We have more resources to study, but the lab has
> > >> gotten more interesting.
> > >>
> > >> They had no such resources at the time and if you
> > >> look at lab materials from
> > >> the past decade you might think some things
> > >> simplistic until you try to deal
> > >> with things like AppleTalk, Novell, and Vines
> > among
> > >> other protocols and the
> > >> joys they brought to the table.
> > >>
> > >> Nope each generation has challenges.
> > >>
> > >> If the lab goes to 2 day again, 3 day or even 5
> > day
> > >> there will be those of
> > >> us who will pay the price to achieve the
> > >> certfication no matter what.
> > >>
> > >> So why even argue the point.
> > >>
> > >> Let the 5-day labs begin now.
> > >>
> > >> Cisco was considerate of the candidates then and
> > >> will be in the future, and
> > >> you wonder why the proctors no longer take the
> > time
> > >> to discuss scores with
> > >> candidates... It was getting spooky to them and
> > >> they were getting fearful
> > >> of the emotionally distraught folks.
> > >>
> > >> The lab is tense and always will be 1 day or
> > more.
> > >>
> > >> But hey and interview and an oral review are not
> > >> unheard of, nor is getting
> > >> a peer or a manager or the like to certify that a
> > >> candidate has x years of
> > >> experience.
> > >>
> > >> Would it really hurt to do these things? And
> > what
> > >> about continuing
> > >> education credit of some sort.
> > >>
> > >> Networkers used to be a nice requirement and it
> > went
> > >> away. Personally it or
> > >> an alternative such as attending at least 40
> > years
> > >> of CCIE level training
> > >> per year would be a minimum in my book.
> > >>
> > >> Guess there would be a lot CCIE's hating me and
> > more
> > >> loving me if I ever got
> > >> the job.
> > >>
> > >> Value would be secured for sure and no one would
> > >> fear being called a paper
> > >> tiger or even a lab rat.
> > >>
> > >> If you got it you earned it, and if you got it,
> > you
> > >> continue to earn it.
> > >>
> > >> Not much to ask from the most respected cert in
> > the
> > >> industry.
> > >>
> > >> Why not set the standard?
> > >>
> > >> It's called survival, when only the strong can
> > >> survive.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- Lab Dude <ccielabdude@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Whats next? Rename of CCIE to PhD certification?
> > >>> Pre-requisite being
> > >>> enrolling at a Cisco Academy for 5 years before
> > >>>
> > >> pursuing the
> > >>
> > >>> certification?
> > >>> If I recall correctly, there are no lab slots
> > >>>
> > >> available in the near
> > >>
> > >>> future due to 'high-demand'. Do you really think
> > >>>
> > >> Cisco has enough
> > >>
> > >>> resources to allocate for a certification?
> > >>>
> > >>> Give me a break. This is just a certification
> > that
> > >>>
> > >> needs renewing
> > >>
> > >>> every 2 years. This is NOT a PhD dissertation.
> > At
> > >>>
> > >> least once you get
> > >>
> > >>> the PhD degree you hold it for life, not with a
> > 2
> > >>>
> > >> years renewal
> > >>
> > >>> condition.
> > >>>
> > >>> If Cisco was to ever adhere to the rumor, it
> > would
> > >>>
> > >> be extremely unfair
> > >>
> > >>> to those planning to pursue in the future as
> > many
> > >>>
> > >> wimps have already
> > >>
> > >>> passed before ;-)
> > >>>
> > >>> On 4/16/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Dan,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> You know there is a rumor of a new program
> > >>>>
> > >> manager
> > >>
> > >>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>> replace Maurilio and that program manager wants
> > >>>>
> > >> I multiday program
> > >>
> > >>>> (I think 5-day) and that it would involve just
> > >>>>
> > >> such an interview
> > >>
> > >>>> process on day one before a candidate would
> > ever
> > >>>>
> > >> even be allowed to
> > >>
> > >>> see a
> > >>>
> > >>>> rack of gear. Then the candidate would have to
> > >>>>
> > >> complete each of
> > >>
> > >>>> several tracks to include all of
> > >>>>
> > >>> the
> > >>>
> > >>>> older technologies and the newer ones as well.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Just a rumor but my own ears did hear it.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I guess it would be a true Enterprise-Class
> > CCIE
> > >>>>
> > >>> and
> > >>>
> > >>>> wimps need not apply.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --- Dan C <cdan2154@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hi all,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I like the idea Usman put forward by the time
> > >>>>>
> > >>> those
> > >>>
> > >>>>> guys attempt to memorise
> > >>>>> 100 labs they will be CCIE's ready without
> > >>>>>
> > >>> knowing
> > >>>
> > >>>>> :) Maybe another way to
> > >>>>> move forward is for Cisco to have a live
> > >>>>>
> > >>> interview
> > >>>
> > >>>>> before the day of the
> > >>>>> exam, where you may need to answer few basic
> > >>>>>
> > >> questions and prove
> > >>
> > >>>>> that you have the experience needed to move to
> > >>>>>
> > >> the next level...
> > >>
> > >>>>> who knows....
> > >>>>> my2cents, Dan
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 4/17/07, Usman Ali <usman198@gmail.com>
> > >>>>>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>>> Hello all Gurus ,
> > >>>>>> I think it is very desperate for the people
> > >>>>>>
> > >>> who
> > >>>
> > >>>>> are doing CCIE by studying
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> .
> > >>>>>> i am working on ccie from last 1 year and
> > >>>>>>
> > >> quit
> > >>
> > >>> job
> > >>>
> > >>>>> only for study and my
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> target to pass CCIE in three attempts , if i
> > >>>>>>
> > >> pass end of this
> > >>
> > >>>>>> year what will be the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>> market
> > >>>
> > >>>>> of ccie after 3 years
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> when there would be more than 50000 CCIE and
> > >>>>>>
> > >> a
> > >>
> > >>> few
> > >>>
> > >>>>> thousands with good
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> knowledge ,
> > >>>>>> it is very disappointing position is it
> > >>>>>>
> > >> better to go with IBM
> > >>
> > >>>>>> certification to
> > >>>>>>
> > >>> earn
> > >>>
> > >>>>> IBM cert you need just
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> a few configurations and once a redbook
> > >>>>>>
> > >> study
> > >>
> > >>> of
> > >>>
> > >>>>> the technology , i
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> passed IBM SAN solution desinger examine 3
> > >>>>>>
> > >>> years
> > >>>
> > >>>>> before and it is more
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> easy than even CCNA and have a good market
> > >>>>>>
> > >>> value
> > >>>
> > >>>>> too .
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> can cisco make a huge data base of some 100
> > >>>>>>
> > >>> labs
> > >>>
> > >>>>> you will get one in
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> examine or something like this to avoid the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>> fraud
> > >>>
> > >>>>> .
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> bye
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Usman Ali
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Anthony Bonilla wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On the same note, one of the proctors in
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> RTP
> > >>
> > >>> was
> > >>>
> > >>>>> mentioning that they
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> know
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> that lab exams are leaking out being that
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> whenever Cisco releases a new
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> exam, the passing rate is real low but
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> after
> > >>
> > >>> two
> > >>>
> > >>>>> weeks or so, the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> passing
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> rate shoots up to 90% - go figure!
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> When everyone in the room asked why Cisco
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> does
> > >>>
> > >>>>> not do anything about it,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> he
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> replied that they can't do anything there
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> because China has no NDA or
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> something to that affect. Or better yet,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> Cisco
> > >>>
> > >>>>> should offering this
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> exam in
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> those countries to begin with but if this
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> continues to go on and Cisco
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> does
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> not do anything knowing all this is
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> happening,
> > >>>
> > >>>>> you always wonder if they
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> themselves are involved as well???
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Just my 2 cents.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On 4/15/07, Darby Weaver
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > >>>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> What everyone on this list in a position
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> to
> > >>
> > >>>>> hire
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> should do, could do, and ought to do with
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>> every
> > >>>
> > >>>>> single
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> job candidate, CCIE notwithstanding, is
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> set
> > >>
> > >>>>> them down
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> in front of some gear and let them show
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> you
> > >>
> > >>> how
> > >>>
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> why they are the person for the job...
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> 2-3 hours in front of gear and you know
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>> whether
> > >>>
> > >>>>> you
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> have a keeper or... NOT.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Lots of people are passing the lab these
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>> past
> > >>>
> > >>>>> few
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> years...
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Not all of them are quite qualified to
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> work
> > >>
> > >>> on
> > >>>
> > >>>>> a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> full-fledged network with "issues". I'm
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>> sure
> > >>>
> > >>>>> most of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> have worked hard and some for some years,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>> but a
> > >>>
> > >>>>> few
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> squeak by.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> So... if everyone here and everywhere
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> else
> > >>
> > >>>>> maintains
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> good hiring practices, then I suspect
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> that
> > >>
> > >>> we
> > >>>
> > >>>>> will not
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> have this problem of people passing the
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> lab
> > >>
> > >>> and
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>>> getting digits by any means necessary.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Not is they know that the cert alone is
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> not
> > >>
> > >>> a
> > >>>
> > >>>>> rubber
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> stamp to a CCIE-Level position.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> However with a quick romp to the job
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> boards
> > >>
> > >>> and
> > >>>
> > >>>>> seeing
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> postings like:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> CCNA required and CCIE desired... with
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> MCSE
> > >>
> > >>> or
> > >>>
> > >>>>> CNE or
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Unix experience and oh yes, we want the
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>> candidate to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> install MS SQL or MS Exchange or even
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>> handle
> > >>>
> > >>>>> desktop
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> support issues and Symantec AV etc...
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Hmmm... What is the point...
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Also be careful to apply to jobs that are
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>> of a
> > >>>
> > >>>>> CCIE
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> caliber as well - once you get the grail.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> =====================================
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> One more thing, did anyone ever consider
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>> that
> > >>>
> > >>>>> maybe,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> just maybe, Cisco is the one putting out
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>> the
> > >>>
> > >>>>> "real
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> CCIE Labs" and if they are I suppose the
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>> proctors have
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> a lot of fun watching things not quite
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> work
> > >>
> > >>> for
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>>> candidates whenever they pass through...
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>> Here's a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> little but not quite a lot...
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> That is kind of sadistic... Especially
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>> since
> > >>>
> > >>>>> they may
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> even have the names of the buyers...
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Hey - how many people come report back on
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>> GS
> > >>>
> > >>>>> and say
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> they cannot figure out what went wrong...
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Hah!
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> LOL
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Hmmm...
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Close but no cigar...
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> --- CCIEwnaB <cciewnab@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> OK smart peeps,
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I have a friend who is currently working
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>> on
> > >>>
> > >>>>> her
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> CCNP, and keeps giving me a
> > >>>>>>>>> hard time for not having passed the lab
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>> yet (1
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>> failed attempt under my belt) but I'm
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >> still hitting it hard
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> and will be
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>> going back
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> in another 2 moths.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Anyway, she's convinced that when she
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>> finishes
> > >>>
> > >>>>> her
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> last NP test she'll just
> > >>>>>>>>> pay the $1200 to the folks who shall
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>> remian
> > >>>
> > >>>>> nameless
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> and study the "3 real
> > >>>>>>>>> CCIE labs" and pass on the first
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >> attempt."
> > >>
> > >>> I
> > >>>
> > >>>>> agree
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> with what's been said
> > >>>>>>>>> here so many times before, that the cert
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>> only
> > >>>
> > >>>>> means
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> something if you truly
> > >>>>>>>>> are an expert and have earned it. So
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >> let's
> > >>
> > >>> not
> > >>>
> > >>>>> get
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> everyone all wound up.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> That being said, does anyone have a few
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>> stories I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> can share with her, that
> > >>>>>>>>> might be helpfull in keeping her on the
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>> "HIGH
> > >>>
> > >>>>> ROAD".
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I keep trying to tell
> > >>>>>>>>> her, she's going to pay $1200 for a
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >> couple
> > >>
> > >>>>> useless
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> old files and then what,
> > >>>>>>>>> go to the proctor on test day and say,
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >> hey
> > >>
> > >>>>> this
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> isn't the test I was
> > >>>>>>>>> expecting you must have made a mistake?
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I'm sure there are other folks here who
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>> have
> > >>>
> > >>>>> fallen
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> for it, please share
> > >>>>>>>>> your experiences so my friend will see
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >> the
> > >>
> > >>>>> light and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> not surrender to the
> > >>>>>>>>> dark side...she knows who she is
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >> at:
> > >>
> > >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >>>
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >>
> > >>>>>>
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >>>>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
-- Narbik Kocharians CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security) CCSI# 30832 Network Learning, Inc. (CCIE class Instructor) www.ccbootcamp.com (CCIE Training)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Tue May 01 2007 - 08:28:36 ART