From: Paul Borghese (pborghese@groupstudy.com)
Date: Wed Apr 04 2007 - 14:02:58 ART
Narbik,
That may be how you see it ... which would be true if you expect your
students to fail. But frankly I expect my students to pass.
Good grief, the CCIE is hard but it is not impossible.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Narbik Kocharians
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:16 AM
To: Darby Weaver
Cc: Joe Yohannan; marvin@ipexpert.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: GroupStudy accelerated CCIE study group
ITS like saying i will give you a discount of 1250
On 4/4/07, Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Actually Joe,
>
> I was considering taking the class, but I was
> thoughtful in considering that I simply had not
> recalled seeing a lot of testimonials on Paul's
> behalf.
>
> I would guess there would be.
>
> When I had read the methodology it sounded very
> thorough, especially with regard to Multicast and
> assumably every other topic.
>
> In a manner similar to what Caslow at NMC has done for
> the his Video on Demand Series.
>
> And what Narbik at NLI is doing for his new workbook.
>
> These two guys and their respective teams have taken
> each topic and explored the most common tested
> objectives and given one a complete view of the
> subject.
>
> It sounded like Paul is going to do the same thing
> with his course of study which is quite commendable.
>
> I have to agree with the other trainers whom I spoke
> with both on list and off-list and that a guarantee is
> simply that, a payment of up $1295.00 if one should
> have to repeat the lab exam.
>
> So I may well consider this option.
>
> For myself, I am nearly there and only need to go to
> the lab and prove myself or not, but I still have
> training dollars this year to spend in this endeavour,
> so I may well be able to try this, assuming I could
> get everything approved in time.
>
>
> --- Joe Yohannan <joe1265@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Darby, I'm surprised to hear this. Paul B is a HUGE
> > presence in the CCIE
> > training community from my point of view. I took
> > both the CCIE courses from
> > global knowledge and thought they were excellent!
> > So consider this a
> > testimonial. :) i don't have my number yet but
> > will have it soon.
> >
> > I think it would be informative to all if you took
> > this accelerated class.
> > That way you can send out daily updates on Paul like
> > you did with H U. (Or
> > "the one and only" as you refer to him)
> >
> > - Joe Yo
> >
> >
> > >From: Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > >Reply-To: Darby Weaver <darbyweaver@yahoo.com>
> > >To: Marvin Greenlee <marvin@ipexpert.com>,
> > ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > >Subject: RE: GroupStudy accelerated CCIE study
> > group
> > >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:14:15 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Point taken but H U does have a lot of smiling
> > >testimonials on his site.
> > >
> > >And if that were not enough, I sat next to a guy
> > who H
> > >U himself said that the whole group who had just
> > >completed the three weeks were a bit "slow" and
> > then
> > >subsequently, I watched the guy through his trials
> > and
> > >tribulations through his fourth week and then
> > >subsequently got his call saying he passed and now
> > has
> > >his digits.
> > >
> > >So...
> > >
> > >Not that I am saying it cannot be done, I mean
> > Cathay
> > >and IPSol in China and India do it as well and
> > there's
> > >a team in Dubai that will do it for you for only
> > >$6000.00 or so they claim.
> > >
> > >But, I find it hard that one can guarantee it.
> > >
> > >I guess I could just take the loss the leader for
> > the
> > >marketing and simply pay up the $1295.00 (isn't the
> > >lab still $1250.00?).
> > >
> > >So if it is a marketing ploy, I suppose it would
> > work.
> > > Others have similar promises, but few if any ever
> > >"GUARANTEE" a pass on the CCIE Lab.
> > >
> > >Now if one could take the best 10 or 20 recent
> > posters
> > >on GS, and have one's pick of the litter, then
> > perhaps
> > >this might be a true statement.
> > >
> > >But since only 31 people have passed the lab from
> > U.S.
> > >during the period from 2/1/2007 to 4/2/2007, I
> > still
> > >would find it very RARE that anyone could guarantee
> > >say any given 6-8 candidates a pass on any given
> > day.
> > >
> > >Sorry the statistics do not support this.
> > >
> > >Even when one considers who many sudents
> > collectively
> > >attend NMC, NLI, IPExpert, and InternetworkExpert
> > in a
> > >given month, we all know they do not all attempt or
> > >even pass the lab immediately after.
> > >
> > >It is RARE.
> > >
> > >Say the lab in San Jose and the lab in RTP each do
> > >about 10 RS candidates per day for 20 days or so
> > each
> > >month.
> > >
> > >That's about 400 lab attempts per month, and in the
> > >last 2 months about 800 attempts - Only 31 U.S.
> > >Candidates passed RS in the last 2 months or so.
> > >
> > >So if someone can inject 6-8 lab candidates into
> > these
> > >figures, my hat is off to him or them. My question
> > is
> > >"WHERE ARE THE TESTIMONIALS?"
> > >
> > >Paul hosts GS and has done so for about 9 years, I
> > do
> > >not recall seeing a host of testimonials stating
> > that
> > >he actually instructed that many or even I dare say
> > >any of the people who have thanked him for hosting
> > GS.
> > >
> > >
> > >I would have trouble with anyone who "GUARANTEES" a
> > >pass, even H U does not guarantee it, nor does
> > Bruce
> > >Caslow, they are wise to understand that there is
> > >still a matter of interpretation no matter who well
> > >educated the candidate or how well trained.
> > >
> > >BTW - Can't say H U's name since it is filtered.
> > >Who's wheaties did he step on anyway...?
> > >
> > >So is asking for testimonials a bad question?
> > >
> > >IPExpert has them.
> > >NLI has them.
> > >H U has them.
> > >InternetworkExpert has tons of them.
> > >NMC has a legion.
> > >
> > >Even Hello, Trinet, IPSol, Fastlane and others have
> > >them...
> > >
> > >Where are the one's certscience? The people who
> > are
> > >"GUARANTEEING" someone will take their course and
> > >pass.
> > >
> > >Sounds like a gimmick. That's all.
> > >
> > >Anyone else think differently?
> > >
> > >Anyone here pass after being taught be a CCIE
> > >Instructor who has taught for at least a few years
> > >using these techniques?
> > >
> > >That's all.
> > >
> > >I am not saying there are none, I just don't recall
> > >seeing them, not to say that Paul has not taught
> > >others or taught for other companies - perhaps even
> > >IPExpert.
> > >
> > >However, a few testimonials with CCIE #'s behind
> > them
> > >would enable us as potential customers to line up
> > at
> > >the door.
> > >
> > >The price is much more than reasonable for the
> > amount
> > >of training.
> > >
> > >I love the idea of taking each technology apart -
> > like
> > >the example of Multicast and 17 configurations.
> > >
> > >Most impressive and I've seen Narbik from NLI do
> > this
> > >with BGP and I'm still trying to find time to get
> > >through RIP and see what I may have missed.
> > >
> > >I've seen what NMC can do to any given topic for
> > >completeness.
> > >
> > >I'm not saying it is impossible or that Paul cannot
> > do
> > >it. Indeed, if he, as an accomplished CCIE himself
> > >and as an instructor has been reading the posts on
> > GS
> > >and breaking topics down for 9 years, then he no
> > doubt
> > >has the materials and the ability to present them
> > >would be a given.
> > >
> > >The only question is where are the testimonials.
> > >
> > >I did realize that the class is only now forming,
> > but
> > >I would think that such techniques have been used
> > in
> > >the past or similar techniques. Paul has been an
> > >instructor for a while now. So surely he has some
> > >testimonials.
> > >
> > >Not much to ask from a program that "guarantees" a
> > >pass.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- Marvin Greenlee <marvin@ipexpert.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > A motivated study group goes a long way. Even
> > > > taking the instructor out of
> > > > the picture, a group of people discussing each
> > and
> > > > every topic for a couple
> > > > of hours each night for four weeks goes a long
> > way
> > > > towards readiness.
> > > >
> > > > I just thought it was odd that a short time ago,
> > you
> > > > were raving how H U
> > > > could crank out a CCIE in 3 weeks, and now you
> > seem
> > > > to question someone who
> > > > says they can do it in 6 weeks.
> > > >
> > > > The guarantee is not that you will pass, but
> > that
> > > > you will get $1295 back if
> > > > you don't. Statistically, this doesn't really
> > say
> > > > anything about the
> > > > course, it just affects company financials, so
> > they
> > > > bring in somewhere
> > > > between $8995 per person (100% pass rate) and
> > $7745
> > > > per person (0% pass
> > > > rate).
> > > >
> > > > Since the web page says "launches R&S training"
> > on
> > > > 3/15, I think it's safe
> > > > to say there aren't any "past candidates" for
> > this
> > > > particular program.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Darby Weaver
> > [mailto:darbyweaver@yahoo.com]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 7:18 PM
> > > > To: Marvin Greenlee; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > Subject: RE: GroupStudy accelerated CCIE study
> > group
> > > >
> > > > Wow it sounds personal.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, no disrespect to Paul at all.
> > > >
> > > > But it seems that there should, would, and could
> > be
> > > > more testimonials from someone (ANYONE) claiming
> > to
> > > > guarantee a pass on only 6 weeks.
> > > >
> > > > Either that or we have a lot of people who are
> > > > slacking for taking a lot longer even years to
> > prep
> > > > (and this may well be the case).
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________________________
> > >Subscription information may be found at:
> > >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
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>
-- Narbik Kocharians CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security) CCSI# 30832 Network Learning, Inc. (CCIE class Instructor) www.ccbootcamp.com (CCIE Training)
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