From: phase90 (phase90@comcast.net)
Date: Sat Feb 19 2005 - 22:41:30 GMT-3
----- Original Message -----
From: "CCIE Group Study" <ccie@madisonsolutions.net>
To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: Greed is one of the deadly sins__Re: Testkink and such
> Good morning:
>
> Capitalistic behavior is not greed. Cisco's focus has always been, and
will
> always be marketing. Nortel and Lucent have focused on engineering not
> marketing. Microsoft only introduced its certification program after the
> wildly successful Novel certification program.
>
> These decisions are made as capital decisions; "it's business, not
> personal". Asking American business to develop a socialist agenda managed
by
> big government assumes that resources are scarce, resources are not scarce
> in the electronic age, (Third Wave).
>
> As CCIE's we are the car mechanics. If you want to work for a dealership,
> the factory, or for the client that is your preference as a CCIE. I like
it
> that way. We are still in an industry that allows you to work for
yourself
> with the respect of our clients because of the certification process.
>
> Tools like Testking is not the reason for the success of the CCIE program
or
> future failure of the CCIE program. Cisco at a gut level fully
understands
> what is required; to understand, and build effective business networks.
> Look at the CCNA program it is much more than just point and shoot at a
web
> page. The volume of successful CCNA candidates has affected the market
> price, not Testking.
>
> The certification programs that are no more than http://, point, click,
> point, click, click remain low on the income strata simply because
> businesses need IT people to have an intuitive understanding of the
business
> process and how IT can help streamline the business, not just point,
click,
> click.
>
> Take Wal-Mart; IT is core to their business strategy, for Sears and K-Mart
> IT counts beans. Wal-Mart wants CCIE's that understand the business needs
> first then, click, click, click.
>
> The failure of Microsoft MCSE's is not TestKing but rather the lack of
> business smarts incorporated into the MCSE. This is Microsoft's problem
and
> will impact market share in the business sector over the long term.
>
> Linux success is in no small part due to the university environment that
> many Linux managers and applications are created in. RedHat came from the
> NC University system, e-Mail came from the NC Universities. To say
nothing
> about the Internet, (it was not Al Gore or government) *** CORRECTION ***
DARPA was a govt. agency - you get the buzzer on that 1!
but the university
> engineering schools, (BIND, Kerberos, e-Mail, etc.).
>
> We all know of MCSE messes, and I thank you, my family thanks you, etc.
From
> the beginning of your introduction to Cisco, business models are an
integral
> part of your training, Core, Distribution, Access, 7-Layer cake, etc.
>
> The answer for your business success is not Testking but a love for what
you
> do, and having the ability to get knocked down (fail the test) and get
back
> up and try again. Having a test with such a low passing rate is not what
is
> respected, but the acquired knowledge and respect that IT has for those
that
> continue to try.
>
> For the rest of the world, point, click, click, click, away.
>
> George Morton, Ph. D.
>
> Now get back to your labs you Router RATS !!!
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
> To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 10:47 AM
> Subject: RE: Greed is one of the deadly sins__Re: Testkink and such
>
>
> > And now we have taken a large step towards the absurd.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > dillon yang
> > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:59 AM
> > To: Rick
> > Cc: Group Study
> > Subject: Greed is one of the deadly sins__Re: Testkink and such
> >
> > =======================================
> >
> > Greed is one of the deadly sins.
> > TestKing may be the 100% greed.
> > NLI, NMC and so on may be the 50% greed.
> > Cisco itself may be the 20% greed.
> >
> > =======================================
> >
> > Why?
> > Cisco generated a certification like CCIE just for itself's products,
not
> > for BAY that made the first switch, not for 3com, and so on. A CCIE is
> > just
> > like a watcher for Cisco products. Since, Cisco should train the
> > candidates
> > on the cuff for its partners and clients! Now Cisco requires the
> > candidates
> > spend a lots of dollars and valuable leisures on acquiring it that is
not
> > equitable like GRE for some REREAD reason. So, Cisco has taken valuable
> > societal resources(including the failed candidates) for its private
> > purpose. The man that got CCIE must be very smart, but is still not
> > eligible
> > to take part in the process of making routers and switches, and is not
> > eligible to share the free drinks in Cisco's office.
> > Cisco displaced its responsibility with the society, that should be
> > fulfilled by a vendor, then it is something about greed. So is 3com, and
> > so
> > on.
> > Since Cisco declare that "CCIE is not a training based certification",
> > then NLI, NMC and so on are somethings about greed, too.
> > TestKing is JUST exceed what is proper.
> > IMHO, I think the original intention of CCIE is for rewarding the extra
> > experienced engineers, without courses, without guessing lab contents.
> > dillon
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick" <rick@iptool.net>
> > To: "Etchings, Jay" <EtchingsJ@ally.com>
> > Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: Testkink and such
> >
> >
> >> I am curious to what you mean by the "cert game". Every thing I have
read
> >> about in the past says Vendors actually lose money directly on the cert
> >> programs. Now, I will be the first to agree that they more than make up
> >> for it in reduced support cost and name recognition as a result of
> >> offering the certs. For example as a CCIE, I am more likely to purchase
> >> or
> >> recommend Cisco and I "should" be able to better troubleshoot Cisco
> >> products, reducing the amount of times I have to call support.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > There may come a day when any respected certification will require a
> >> > "hands on lab" Microsoft has already pondered this scenario. The
> >> > vendors
> >> > make so much in the cert game; even if you cheat they still get their
> >> > money.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I think hands on exams would end all these sort of debates.
> >> >
> >> > Just my 2 cents,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Jay Etchings
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Jay Etchings
> >> >
> >> >
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