From: Dillon Yang (gzdillon@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Feb 20 2005 - 02:03:36 GMT-3
Wonderfull speech!
It shows a direction that prevents us from being a blind donkey under the UNKNOWN ccie program "traffic policing", and is better than just one word "back to lab"!
Thanks. We are all donkeys in the cisco gristmill but we do not want to be a blind one.
dillon
----- Original Message -----
From: "CCIE Group Study" <ccie@madisonsolutions.net>
To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: Greed is one of the deadly sins__Re: Testkink and such
> Good morning:
>
> Capitalistic behavior is not greed. Cisco's focus has always been, and will
> always be marketing. Nortel and Lucent have focused on engineering not
> marketing. Microsoft only introduced its certification program after the
> wildly successful Novel certification program.
>
> These decisions are made as capital decisions; "it's business, not
> personal". Asking American business to develop a socialist agenda managed by
> big government assumes that resources are scarce, resources are not scarce
> in the electronic age, (Third Wave).
>
> As CCIE's we are the car mechanics. If you want to work for a dealership,
> the factory, or for the client that is your preference as a CCIE. I like it
> that way. We are still in an industry that allows you to work for yourself
> with the respect of our clients because of the certification process.
>
> Tools like Testking is not the reason for the success of the CCIE program or
> future failure of the CCIE program. Cisco at a gut level fully understands
> what is required; to understand, and build effective business networks.
> Look at the CCNA program it is much more than just point and shoot at a web
> page. The volume of successful CCNA candidates has affected the market
> price, not Testking.
>
> The certification programs that are no more than http://, point, click,
> point, click, click remain low on the income strata simply because
> businesses need IT people to have an intuitive understanding of the business
> process and how IT can help streamline the business, not just point, click,
> click.
>
> Take Wal-Mart; IT is core to their business strategy, for Sears and K-Mart
> IT counts beans. Wal-Mart wants CCIE's that understand the business needs
> first then, click, click, click.
>
> The failure of Microsoft MCSE's is not TestKing but rather the lack of
> business smarts incorporated into the MCSE. This is Microsoft's problem and
> will impact market share in the business sector over the long term.
>
> Linux success is in no small part due to the university environment that
> many Linux managers and applications are created in. RedHat came from the
> NC University system, e-Mail came from the NC Universities. To say nothing
> about the Internet, (it was not Al Gore or government) but the university
> engineering schools, (BIND, Kerberos, e-Mail, etc.).
>
> We all know of MCSE messes, and I thank you, my family thanks you, etc. From
> the beginning of your introduction to Cisco, business models are an integral
> part of your training, Core, Distribution, Access, 7-Layer cake, etc.
>
> The answer for your business success is not Testking but a love for what you
> do, and having the ability to get knocked down (fail the test) and get back
> up and try again. Having a test with such a low passing rate is not what is
> respected, but the acquired knowledge and respect that IT has for those that
> continue to try.
>
> For the rest of the world, point, click, click, click, away.
>
> George Morton, Ph. D.
>
> Now get back to your labs you Router RATS !!!
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
> To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 10:47 AM
> Subject: RE: Greed is one of the deadly sins__Re: Testkink and such
>
>
> > And now we have taken a large step towards the absurd.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > dillon yang
> > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:59 AM
> > To: Rick
> > Cc: Group Study
> > Subject: Greed is one of the deadly sins__Re: Testkink and such
> >
> > =======================================
> >
> > Greed is one of the deadly sins.
> > TestKing may be the 100% greed.
> > NLI, NMC and so on may be the 50% greed.
> > Cisco itself may be the 20% greed.
> >
> > =======================================
> >
> > Why?
> > Cisco generated a certification like CCIE just for itself's products, not
> > for BAY that made the first switch, not for 3com, and so on. A CCIE is
> > just
> > like a watcher for Cisco products. Since, Cisco should train the
> > candidates
> > on the cuff for its partners and clients! Now Cisco requires the
> > candidates
> > spend a lots of dollars and valuable leisures on acquiring it that is not
> > equitable like GRE for some REREAD reason. So, Cisco has taken valuable
> > societal resources(including the failed candidates) for its private
> > purpose. The man that got CCIE must be very smart, but is still not
> > eligible
> > to take part in the process of making routers and switches, and is not
> > eligible to share the free drinks in Cisco's office.
> > Cisco displaced its responsibility with the society, that should be
> > fulfilled by a vendor, then it is something about greed. So is 3com, and
> > so
> > on.
> > Since Cisco declare that "CCIE is not a training based certification",
> > then NLI, NMC and so on are somethings about greed, too.
> > TestKing is JUST exceed what is proper.
> > IMHO, I think the original intention of CCIE is for rewarding the extra
> > experienced engineers, without courses, without guessing lab contents.
> > dillon
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick" <rick@iptool.net>
> > To: "Etchings, Jay" <EtchingsJ@ally.com>
> > Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: Testkink and such
> >
> >
> >> I am curious to what you mean by the "cert game". Every thing I have read
> >> about in the past says Vendors actually lose money directly on the cert
> >> programs. Now, I will be the first to agree that they more than make up
> >> for it in reduced support cost and name recognition as a result of
> >> offering the certs. For example as a CCIE, I am more likely to purchase
> >> or
> >> recommend Cisco and I "should" be able to better troubleshoot Cisco
> >> products, reducing the amount of times I have to call support.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > There may come a day when any respected certification will require a
> >> > "hands on lab" Microsoft has already pondered this scenario. The
> >> > vendors
> >> > make so much in the cert game; even if you cheat they still get their
> >> > money.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I think hands on exams would end all these sort of debates.
> >> >
> >> > Just my 2 cents,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Jay Etchings
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Jay Etchings
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________________________________
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> >>
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>
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