From: Diment, Andrew (Andrew.Diment@qwest.com)
Date: Tue Feb 01 2005 - 17:25:12 GMT-3
This is a bunch of BULL. I passed my CCIE 2.5 years ago and I'm learning as much new stuff now as I was then. My job is tier 3 support for Cisco products. A few years ago people were converting from RIP to OPSF or EIGRP, today people are switching from frame relay to VPN across the internet. Technology changes but it doesn't necessarily get any easier. Cat 5000 looks easy now compared to a 6500 in native mode with voice vlans, QoS, redundant stateful failover, Firewall Service Modules and Network Analyzing Modules ect... get my point. If anything networking is getting more complex.
Do you think security is more or less important today then it was 5 years ago? I hope you said more because the threats and the hackers abilities are increasing. Everything I've seen about the future of networking/security/VOIP says this field is one of the biggest growing, I think the only one bigger was the medical field. And these upper level jobs will not be outsourced, especially security.
Andy :)
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
McLaughlin, Jeffery
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 1:40 PM
To: alasdair gilchrist; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: RE: Slightly OT: Any truth in this?
"No, I think the cornerstone of his argument is that CCIE's will no longer be
required."
That's not his argument, though. I quote: "Folks, networking, routing, and
firewalls are still 'hot' skills, but that's not going to last." He's not
referring to any specific vendor, but networking in general.
"I believe, perhaps wrongly that the time and effort should be chanelled into
becoming an all round network engineer."
I'd agree with you. That's why CCIE is not my only cert, and why I've worked
with many other vendors. I'd recommend (and have on this list) that CCIE
students start with non-Cisco books before delving into the Cisco-specific
stuff. That said, I would argue that the CCIE is likely to have a fairly good
grasp of network concepts that translate across vendors. That, however, is an
argument that has been debated so many times on this list... Rather than
rehash, I'd suggest we all search the archives for past debates and be
satisfied with that.
Respectfully,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
alasdair gilchrist
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 11:29 AM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Fwd: RE: Slightly OT: Any truth in this?
Note: forwarded message attached.
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From: alasdair gilchrist <alasdair_gilchrist@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Any truth in this?
To: "McLaughlin, Jeffery" <JMcLaughlin@sfchronicle.com>
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No, I think the cornerstone of his argument is that CCIE's will no longer be
required. Networks will diverge between different vendors not converge to a
single vendor. That I believe is true. You can see this happening already.
Cisco's once dominant position is eroding because they are casting their net
to far. Even now Extreme, Foundry etc are challenging their sacred ground of
fast switching. With regard VOIP they are lagging behind Nortel, manly because
Nortel have the Meridian etc. If your client had a Meridian PBX would you as a
consultant suggest a Cisco VOIP solution or a Passport with BSM voice
router/switch. I know which one I would go for , purely for piece of mind.
Security, they are out of the picture, unless you are hopelessy a Cisco
house.
I believe, perhaps wrongly that the time and effort should be chanelled into
becoming an all round network engineer. One that can, as a consultant provide
the best possible solution regardless of vendor loyality. If all a consultant
can do is suggest Cisco products because that is all he knows (or studied) he
is not an engineer or consultant he is merely a salesman.
"McLaughlin, Jeffery" <JMcLaughlin@sfchronicle.com> wrote:
This quote consists of statements unsupported by any sort of coherent
argument. His only clear point is as follows:
1. CCIE's (or skilled network engineers) are in demand now because some
networks are difficult to configure.
2. Network hardware is becoming increasingly simple to configure.
3. At some point in the near future, network hardware will be so simple to
configure that any ordinary user will be able to configure it.
4. Therefore, CCIE's will no longer be required.
Since point #3 is the cornerstone of his argument, if it's not true, then he
is wrong.
So what's his proof? That it is already at that point for home users? It's
not possible to compare a single-router home user network with a large-scale
network, containing hundreds or thousands of routers, often mixed vendor
environments, and a variety of interconnecting technologies. He says that "it
is close to that
point now," but the network I manage is, uh, just a little bit harder to
manage than my LinkSys box at home. The point that this guy is missing is
that networks are inherently difficult to configure and manage for a simple
reason: a network is really a heck of a lot of computers running distributed
algorithms over a large area. Between the interaction of network devices with
each other, and the interaction of end nodes with the network devices, a
network is almost inevitably complex and will require skilled people to
manage
it.
That's not to say that some day CCIE's won't go the way of mainframe systems
programmers, but I doubt it will happen any time soon.
Jeff McLaughlin
CCIE #14023
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Roy
Dempsey
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 7:11 AM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Slightly OT: Any truth in this?
Came across this article, don't know anything about the source.
However, as someone who's been studying for this for a long time, I
hope its not accurate.
Quote :
"I was interested to see that RHCE (Red Hat Certified Engineer) was
listed in slot 3 of certifications IT professionals want to get.
CCIE ( Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert) is at the top, which I
think shows tremendous short-sightedness. Folks, networking, routing
and firewalls are still "hot" skills, but that's not going to last.
All this stuff is going to be packaged up into teeny little hardware
bundles that any idiot can configure - in fact, it is close to that
point now and really is already for the home user. Yes, corporate
networks demand a bit more, but not all that much more. In a few more
years, you won't need any high-cost certified type to control even a
fairly complex network.
But OS support and administration has longer lasting legs. Any random
idiot can't necessarily install and configure a server or maybe even a
desktop PC if it is part of a larger network. Not yet, anyway - though
zero brain configuration of desktops is often possible, servers are a
long way from that. Will it stay that way forever? Of course not -
that's one reason I'm glad to be getting close to retirement age:
servers are already starting to become appliances, and the trend will
continue, requiring less and less knowledge and intelligence at the
point of use. If I were in my twenties or thirties, I would have to be
thinking realistically that the market for my skills may be slowly
drying up. We old geezers and young whippersnappers alike can count on
at least another decade of being needed, but my crystal ball gets
cloudy after that. "
Link (watch the wrap):
http://www.webpronews.com/it/itmanagement/wpn-18-20050131LinuxCertificationGa
iningGroundbutCiscoStillonTop.html
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