From: cc ie (davidscottmartin@gmail.com)
Date: Tue Feb 01 2005 - 18:04:21 GMT-3
1) This sysadmin is wanker ! his probably had a gut full of network
guys telling him its not the network stopping his box from working.
2) ccnps may become worthless, ccie might only become the standard
benchmark !! ( I doubt it however ), IE still worth getting whichever
way you look at it.
3) Yes my kid sister could have configured my LinkSys G home network
but that doesnt mean she could fix it ! nor understand how it works !
nor deploy a campass
4) "... it'a all plug and play now " ! QoS-preclassify my VPN arse
they are ! a nice shinny GUI will not help a sysadmin design a robust
multi vendor 'SAFE blueprint' perimeter network !
Dave
IE Written, CCNP, MCSE, CNE
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 19:53:03 +0000 (GMT), alasdair gilchrist
<alasdair_gilchrist@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> "Folks, networking,
> routing, and firewalls are still 'hot' skills, but that's not going to last."
> He's not referring to any specific vendor, but networking in general.
>
> So why does it come under the heading" CCIE."
>
> Though I do agree with you, with everything else you have written.
>
> Cheers
>
> ally
>
>
> "McLaughlin, Jeffery" <JMcLaughlin@sfchronicle.com> wrote:
> "No, I think the cornerstone of his argument is that CCIE's will no longer be required."
> That's not his argument, though. I quote: "Folks, networking, routing, and firewalls are still 'hot' skills, but that's not going to last." He's not referring to any specific vendor, but networking in general.
>
> "I believe, perhaps wrongly that the time and effort should be chanelled into becoming an all round network engineer."
> I'd agree with you. That's why CCIE is not my only cert, and why I've worked with many other vendors. I'd recommend (and have on this list) that CCIE students start with non-Cisco books before delving into the Cisco-specific stuff. That said, I would argue that the CCIE is likely to have a fairly good grasp of network concepts that translate across vendors. That, however, is an argument that has been debated so many times on this list... Rather than rehash, I'd suggest we all search the archives for past debates and be satisfied with that.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Jeff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of alasdair gilchrist
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 11:29 AM
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Fwd: RE: Slightly OT: Any truth in this?
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
>
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> Tue, 01 Feb 2005 19:27:02 GMT
> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 19:27:02 +0000 (GMT)
> From: alasdair gilchrist
> Subject: RE: Slightly OT: Any truth in this?
> To: "McLaughlin, Jeffery"
> In-Reply-To: <78AC233367A9AA4295E689708A23EE9B211722@sfc-is2.adsfchron.com>
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>
> No, I think the cornerstone of his argument is that CCIE's will no longer be required. Networks will diverge between different vendors not converge to a single vendor. That I believe is true. You can see this happening already. Cisco's once dominant position is eroding because they are casting their net to far. Even now Extreme, Foundry etc are challenging their sacred ground of fast switching. With regard VOIP they are lagging behind Nortel, manly because Nortel have the Meridian etc. If your client had a Meridian PBX would you as a consultant suggest a Cisco VOIP solution or a Passport with BSM voice router/switch. I know which one I would go for , purely for piece of mind.
>
> Security, they are out of the picture, unless you are hopelessy a Cisco house.
>
> I believe, perhaps wrongly that the time and effort should be chanelled into becoming an all round network engineer. One that can, as a consultant provide the best possible solution regardless of vendor loyality. If all a consultant can do is suggest Cisco products because that is all he knows (or studied) he is not an engineer or consultant he is merely a salesman.
>
> "McLaughlin, Jeffery" wrote:
> This quote consists of statements unsupported by any sort of coherent
> argument. His only clear point is as follows:
>
> 1. CCIE's (or skilled network engineers) are in demand now because some
> networks are difficult to configure.
> 2. Network hardware is becoming increasingly simple to configure.
> 3. At some point in the near future, network hardware will be so simple to
> configure that any ordinary user will be able to configure it.
> 4. Therefore, CCIE's will no longer be required.
>
> Since point #3 is the cornerstone of his argument, if it's not true, then he
> is wrong.
>
> So what's his proof? That it is already at that point for home users? It's
> not possible to compare a single-router home user network with a large-scale
> network, containing hundreds or thousands of routers, often mixed vendor
> environments, and a variety of interconnecting technologies. He says that "it
> is close to that
> point now," but the network I manage is, uh, just a little bit harder to
> manage than my LinkSys box at home. The point that this guy is missing is
> that networks are inherently difficult to configure and manage for a simple
> reason: a network is really a heck of a lot of computers running distributed
> algorithms over a large area. Between the interaction of network devices with
> each other, and the interaction of end nodes with the network devices, a
> network is almost inevitably complex and will require skilled people to manage
> it.
>
> That's not to say that some day CCIE's won't go the way of mainframe systems
> programmers, but I doubt it will happen any time soon.
>
> Jeff McLaughlin
> CCIE #14023
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Roy
> Dempsey
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 7:11 AM
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Slightly OT: Any truth in this?
>
> Came across this article, don't know anything about the source.
> However, as someone who's been studying for this for a long time, I
> hope its not accurate.
>
> Quote :
>
> "I was interested to see that RHCE (Red Hat Certified Engineer) was
> listed in slot 3 of certifications IT professionals want to get.
>
> CCIE ( Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert) is at the top, which I
> think shows tremendous short-sightedness. Folks, networking, routing
> and firewalls are still "hot" skills, but that's not going to last.
> All this stuff is going to be packaged up into teeny little hardware
> bundles that any idiot can configure - in fact, it is close to that
> point now and really is already for the home user. Yes, corporate
> networks demand a bit more, but not all that much more. In a few more
> years, you won't need any high-cost certified type to control even a
> fairly complex network.
>
> But OS support and administration has longer lasting legs. Any random
> idiot can't necessarily install and configure a server or maybe even a
> desktop PC if it is part of a larger network. Not yet, anyway - though
> zero brain configuration of desktops is often possible, servers are a
> long way from that. Will it stay that way forever? Of course not -
> that's one reason I'm glad to be getting close to retirement age:
> servers are already starting to become appliances, and the trend will
> continue, requiring less and less knowledge and intelligence at the
> point of use. If I were in my twenties or thirties, I would have to be
> thinking realistically that the market for my skills may be slowly
> drying up. We old geezers and young whippersnappers alike can count on
> at least another decade of being needed, but my crystal ball gets
> cloudy after that. "
>
> Link (watch the wrap):
>
> http://www.webpronews.com/it/itmanagement/wpn-18-20050131LinuxCertificationGa
> iningGroundbutCiscoStillonTop.html
>
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