From: iron_tri (iron_tri@msn.com)
Date: Tue Mar 25 2003 - 17:18:37 GMT-3
I've tried to avoid writing on this topic, but I am going to give my
opinion. I am not yet a CCIE, but the new numbers aren't going to
discourage my attempt(s). The CCIE Routing and Switching Certificiation
will probably continue to produce diminishing returns from a resume or
salary perspective. Why? Routing and Switching isn't the complex beast it
was 10 years ago when the CCIE certification first arrived on the IT scene.
Routing and Switching is still complex, just ask a TAC engineer. But, for
most Network Engineers, you tend to have a specialty unless you are a
company's "Jack-of-All-Trades" which I applaud as one of the toughest jobs
in the industry. Being able to keep up with the network, apps, and end
users is the toughest thing I have seen done in the industry. The
technologies are also more accessible, training resources are unlimited, and
industry expertise is growing at an unprecedented rate. But, are those bad
things? Not in my opinion because those are some of the driving factors
behind NEW technologies that bring higher salaries such as IP Telephony (New
Voice CCIE) and Security. If you simply rely on the title to get you in the
door, forget about it. It is experience and the certification combined that
can help you get the job. CCIE will always carry some weight, but if I were
going to hire someone, I would have to look at experience. For example, I
could work for a company that installs CallManager on a regular basis. We
could constantly have resumes cross the desk of folks that are CCIEs, and we
don't hire them. Why? Just because you have a number doesn't mean you know
how to deal with real customer scenarios or issues in the field when it
comes to QOS, CallManager, and Unity, and if you don't have solid experience
with QOS or CallManager, why would my company hire you? Because you can put
a really strange scenario together quickly in a lab? Does a CCIE title
qualify you for a job installing Cisco CallManager for 1500 users in a
production environment? No, it might put you on a team; but you probably
won't get the job if another candidate can supply solid references to a
similar project, which would include QOS design and implementation.
We have also been unfortunate enough to have had bad experiences even with
CCIEs in the past. I can remember one clear example of a consultant with a
number in the 7000 range. He tried to put a 6500 series 10/100 blade in a
7507. He also told me that the 7507 required dual RSPs to run. Does that
make some sense? NetGun anyone? I asked myself, how did this guy get a
number? Well, they don't make you put a 7500 together in the lab. We all
have to face the fact that someone may be more qualified for a job than a
CCIE because they have more of the right kind of experience for the job
being offered on the market.
So, what's my point after rambling? SPECIALIZATION is going to be your
ticket to a higher salary. If you can't see past your nose long enough to
realize that your hard work has already paid off for you, you do have a
number, then figure it out. Hammer on QOS, and sell your lab or part of it
for a couple of servers that will run CallManager and Unity and get on it.
Or, go after Security certification, not necessarily Cisco's as CISSP
carries the weight in that arena. You don't even have to get the Voice CCIE,
just get certified on CallManager/Unity and get some hands on. Work with
your local Cisco office and let them know of your goals and objectives; and
don't be afraid to ask for their assistance. You will find that they can be
very helpful to you.
It is always discouraging to hear someone talk about how their efforts have
been in vain because CCIE won't get them a job. It is tough right now, but
it will get better for all of us. Remember this, if you are going to get
six figures, you are going to really have to bring something to the table in
this economy. CCIE R&S probably won't be enough to get that six figure job,
so take a bigger picture look and hammer it out for yourself.
Good luck in the tough market, and keep your heads up out there. It will
get better with time. It seems better to me than it was last year at this
time when lots of people were losing their jobs by the thousand, but maybe
that's just me. Sorry to offend if this post strikes an angry cord with
you, that's not its purpose.
Irontri
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lasserre, Gregory (Gregory)" <lasserre@lucent.com>
To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: The number of CCIEs grows faster today
> As for me it seems clear that the CCIE certification
> has lost value...
>
> It's really a shame thinking of all the sacrifices
> we made to get it.
>
> Gregory.
>
> ---
>
> LUCENT Technologies O
> LWS - Professional Services
>
> Gregory LASSERRE
> Senior Network Consultant
>
> # CCIE 5882
> e-mail : lasserre@lucent.com
>
>
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : MADMAN [mailto:dmadlan@qwest.com]
> Envoye : mardi 25 mars 2003 15:32
> A : Phong Tran Tien
> Cc : ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Objet : Re: The number of CCIEs grows faster today
>
>
> The program actually started in 93, next to me is CCIE 1040, I took
> mine 2 1/2 years after so I would say it is growing more quickly;)
>
> Dave
>
> Phong Tran Tien wrote:
> > Hi group,
> >
> > I see the truth that the number of CCIEs grows faster today than before.
I
> took and passed the lab on 19 March, got the number #11285 and I notice
that
> Mr Ozan Ocal, CCIE #11318, got his number on 22 March. It means that we
have
> about 33 new CCIEs (11318-11285) in only 3 days (19 to 22 March). Someone
> told me that the number of new CCIEs is 400 each month this year, is it
> true? If it is true, in this year we will have about new 4,800 CCIEs.
> >
> > The CCIE program started in 1994 and up to this time, it's about 10
years
> long, and the total number of CCIEs in the world is now about 10,300 (the
> first CCIE got number 1025). It means that on average the number of CCIEs
> grows 1,030 each year (10,300/10). But compare with the number above,
4,800
> this year, how do you think? Does this mean that, when the number of CCIEs
> increases faster, CCIE certification is easier to get and the value of the
> certification decreases?
> >
> > Tran Tien Phong
> > CCIE #11285
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> David Madland
> CCIE# 2016
> Sr. Network Engineer
> Qwest Communications
> 612-664-3367
>
> I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one
> behind me."
> --- General George S. Patton
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