From: Tom Larus (tlarus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Fri May 31 2002 - 16:38:09 GMT-3
You talked to one hiring manager. I am sure there are many others who might
say the same thing right now, but that does not mean that they represent all
or even most hiring managers at all times. Of course CCIEs are seen as
cheaper/less special now, in the midst one of the worst markets for telecom
and computer networking that has ever existed.
As long as we keep hearing about the many folks who fail the Lab,
experienced and otherwise, at least a few hiring managers will recognize
that it took some serious learning, persistence, and intelligence to pass
the Lab Exam. I would not hire a lab rat to be the top network guru
anywhere, but neither would I dismiss him as a candidate without value, fit
only to ghost PCs and upgrade IOSs for several years until we can trust him
to draft a network design or router configuration.
In terms of intelligence, analytical ability, and drive, the "lab rat" may
have every bit as much to offer a potential employer as the experienced
networker who paid his dues over many hard years by doing everything from
setting up radios, running cable, programming Cobol, ghosting PCs, to
setting up ATM equipment and configuring countless routers. I think
employers need all kinds of people with all kinds of backgrounds, and I am
just sick of having the hard work I and many others do in our practice labs
deprecated.
At the risk of stirring up class hatred, I see a parallel between the
officer and enlisted situation. The experienced enlisted man has crucial
knowledge and experience that the young officer just out of college lack.
(The young officer who fails to recognize this reality will fail miserably.)
Sometimes the enlisted man may resent that some college kid walks in with a
whole bunch of book learning and gets paid more and enjoys higher status (in
some ways) than he does. (He may even deprecate the college kid as having
done more than drink and party for four years, the same way some folks
deprecate the lab rat's work practicing on equipment.) Should we run a
military without any college kid officers? Some might say yes, and that the
only proper way to become an officer is to come up through the ranks.
There must be reasons that the military accepts college kids (often with no
street smarts)as officers. There must be something these people add to the
mix. Perhaps it's some ability at analytical thinking, writing, and other
skills developed in college or in preparation for college. In the same way,
some of us lab rats happen to be gifted with good minds, fortunate enough to
have attended good high schools, colleges, and grad schools, where we
developed our analytical skills.
I am coming to this from having practiced law, taught law part-time, and
drafted appeals court opinions as a clerk for a State Supreme Court Justice.
If I pass the CCIE, will I be completely without value to an employer,
simply because I do not have years and years of industry experience. The
answer right now, I think, may be yes, but I think that answer will change
as the economy improves. Perhaps even that CCIE hiring manager will change
his tune when the economy improves and you walk in after having passed the
Lab Exam.
---- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Trevino" <ctrevino@inflow.com>
To: "'Emmanuel Oppong'" <e-oppong@attbi.com>; "Ccielab@Groupstudy. Com"
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE: FOOD FOR THOUGHT
> I recently had the same experience when interviewing for a consultant
> position. I indicated that I have my lab date scheduled for less than 2
> months away and that I would like to get the certification to help obtain
> more consulting jobs. The hiring manager said that he had 3 CCIE's on
staff
> and that it really wasn't a big deal anymore for the customers "because
> there are alot more CCIE's out there now then before."
>
> My take on the whole thing is that, to be a Senior level Cisco Engineer
the
> CCIE helps. I also personally know 2 guys who have less then 2 years
> experience total in networking and are CCIE's. I wouldn't trust either of
> them with a large network design, but they sure know alot about passing
the
> lab. Just my opinion.
>
> Christopher Trevino
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emmanuel Oppong [mailto:e-oppong@attbi.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:55 AM
> To: Ccielab@Groupstudy. Com
> Subject: CCIE: FOOD FOR THOUGHT
>
>
> I interviewed recently for a sr. networking position and mentioned to the
> interviewing manager, in passing, that I will be taking my ccie lab soon.
> His response got me thinking and wondered what your thoughts are. This is
> exacltly his response:
>
> "Guys these days pass ccie depending on what test they get. ccie is
> rediculous these days since the scenarios and questions asked are non-real
> life and no good practicing engineer will ever use the methods stipulated
in
> the test" And then he goes on to say: "If you tune you ears to
> groupstudy.com and pay attention to some of the rediculous questions and
> scenarios being posed, then maybe you have a chance of passing". Guess
> what? This guy is a ccie himself with a number in the 3000s. By the way,
I
> didn't piss him off for him to say these things, he actually was very
> impressed with my years of experience and educational background.
>
> It has gotten me thinking and quite frustrated at the thought of this
> certification being branded as "ridiculous" by the same employers we are
> trying to prove that we have top notch certification.
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