RE: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?

Good to know none of you people think SDN will change anything. on a side note
i guess knowledge of ping is not required to pass ccie :D and to my experience
server side guys only have one solution restart windows, restart computer or
restart .* :D

> Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 09:46:08 +0200
> Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
> From: manouchehr1979_at_gmail.com
> To: joe_at_affirmedsystems.com
> CC: narbikk_at_gmail.com; itguy.pro_at_gmail.com; william.mccall_at_gmail.com;
jneiberger_at_gmail.com; marcabel_at_gmail.com; m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com;
ccielab_at_groupstudy.com; khanzadap_at_hotmail.com; jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com
>
> Hahahaha. I did interview server guys. I asked one how ping works. he was
> like
>
> you go to run and type ping 192.168.0.1 and hit enter, after few seconds
> the window disappears. lol.
>
> Also I have noticed one thing with server guys, they are only familiar with
> class C address (192.168.0.0/24) :))
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Joseph L. Brunner
> <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>wrote:
>
> > True...
> >
> > I stopped asking that one years ago - as I was told weird stuff - I
almost
> > wanted to break out a hub and wireshark during the interview and put my
> > laptop, a linux server running "traceroute", a windows machine running
> > "tracert" and a cisco router running "traceroute" on that hub to show
them
> > how
> > off they were...
> >
> > Alas,
> >
> > Ever interview windows server guys? Those are even more fun :)
> >
> > SDN wont magically make everyone serious - if anything - it will make
> > people
> > less serious...
> >
> > So, to clearly flex your mind and get serious - do the CCIE R/S :)
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Narbik Kocharians [mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:24 PM
> > To: Haroon
> > Cc: William McCall; John Neiberger; marc abel; Joseph L. Brunner; Mohamed
> > A.
> > Monsef Abbas; Cisco certification; sameer khan; Jay McMickle
> > Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
> >
> > I know one that didn't even know what Ping was............hahahaha
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Haroon
> > <itguy.pro_at_gmail.com<mailto:itguy.pro_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
> > dhcp is pretty tough one.... a lot of them don't know what port PING
> > operates on or difference between Linux/windows traceroute at the
protocol
> > level!!!
> >
> > anyway, world moving to SDN is like the world moved from manual cars to
> > automatic and soon to robot cars.... is the mechanic still around or no?
> > Yes. So, don't let stuff like SDN, CDN mess up with your goals... keep up
> > with the technology that's all.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 2:24 PM, William McCall
> > <william.mccall_at_gmail.com<mailto:william.mccall_at_gmail.com>>wrote:
> >
> > > Can I admit I never bothered remembering DHCP much past the exams?
> > >
> > > Now that y'all gave an easy mnemonic, I guess I better.
> > >
> > > --WM
> > >
> > >
> > > On 07/08/2013 01:00 PM, John Neiberger wrote:
> > >
> > >> I know about Dora the Explorer, so....I'll work for $150k. :-)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 11:50 AM, marc abel
> > <marcabel_at_gmail.com<mailto:marcabel_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I know about DORA, want to pay me $200k ;)
> > >>> On Jul 7, 2013 1:47 PM, "Joseph L. Brunner"
> > <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com<mailto:joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> The same 99% of SDN engineers will know little to nothing - like R/S
> > >>>> engineers do now...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Recall (and I posted it here a few times) we asked 50 (FIFTY) CCIE
or
> > >>>> senior level engineers for a job interview we conducted for a client
> > to
> > >>>> "describe dhcp" and how it works.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> NONE knew DORA... HOLY COW
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Never expected that... the offering salary was around $200k.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sad. Very sad.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
> > [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>] On Behalf Of
> > >>>> Jay McMickle
> > >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 12:25 PM
> > >>>> To: marc abel
> > >>>> Cc: sameer khan; Mohamed A. Monsef Abbas; groupstudy
> > >>>> Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> LOL. Same here!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Regards,
> > >>>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE #35355 (R/S,Sec)
> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone 5
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Jul 7, 2013, at 11:20 AM, marc abel
> > <marcabel_at_gmail.com<mailto:marcabel_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Ha!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> We will see. Finishing my VCP at the moment. Looking to start
either
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> security, data center, or CCDE next year. Still on the fence as to
> > which
> > >>>> way to go.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> -Marc
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Jay McMickle
> > <jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com<mailto:jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Agreed.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> PS- that brings us to the point- where is your 2nd IE, Marc? ;)
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE #35355 (R/S,Sec) Sent from my iPhone 5
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:30 AM, marc abel
> > <marcabel_at_gmail.com<mailto:marcabel_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If you are afraid of change of technology go into accounting.
That
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> hasn't
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> changed much in the last 30 years. I started as Novell Netware
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> certified.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Want to guess when the last time I touched IPX/SPX protocol? You
> > >>>>>>> see
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> change, you adapt. Often change in technology brings opportunity
> > >>>>>>> because not everyone knows the new stuff yet.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> The CCIE was never an end point anyway. Once you earn the CCIE
> > >>>>>>> route and switch then everyone expects you to be an expert on
> > >>>>>>> wireless, or voice,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> or
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> some other technology as well. Keep learning or wither and die in
> > >>>>>>> this business.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> -Marc
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Jay McMickle
> > >>>>>>> <jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com<mailto:jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Being a CCIE and configuring something directly on the device is
> > >>>>>>>> only a small part of the game.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Think of SDN a wireless controller and AP type relationship.
You
> > >>>>>>>> don't get upset that you don't have to configure
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> every
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> AP
> > >>>>>>>> (autonomously) do you? You enjoy the centralized configuration.
> > >>>>>>>> Think
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> of
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> this as being a method of making your job easier/centralized, not
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> taking
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> aware
> > >>>>>>>> of your elite certification. Today's form of SDN is still
> > >>>>>>>> premature,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> but I
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> tell you this- all big player manufacturers are moving this way.
> > >>>>>>>> So,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> you
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> can
> > >>>>>>>> switch brands, but you'll run into the same issue with each one.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> If SDN
> > >>>>>>>> moves you away from seeking the CCIE, then maybe your goals are
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> misaligned.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Technology is moving forward, with or without us. Fight it, and
> > >>>>>>>> stand alone.
> > >>>>>>>> Embrace it, and become the best at it.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Continue your studies and stay up
> > >>>>>>>> with technology. That's my advice.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Cheers.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>>>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE
> > >>>>>>>> #35355 (R&S,Sec)
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ______________________________**__
> > >>>>>>>> From: sameer khan
> > >>>>>>>> <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com<mailto:khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>>
> > >>>>>>>> To: Mohamed A. Monsef Abbas
> > <m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com<mailto:m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com>>
> > >>>>>>>> Cc: groupstudy
> > <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 1:51 AM
> > >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Monsef thanks
> > >>>>>>>> for replying, i really understand that Cisco program manager
must
> > >>>>>>>> have thought of something but let me take a flashback and try to
> > >>>>>>>> explain where i am coming from, not too far back Microsoft
dumped
> > >>>>>>>> dos, with windows 95. With windows 95 the GUI eliminated the
> > >>>>>>>> need of commands that were used for operation as simple as
copying
> > >>>>>>>> a file. The companies are there for one sole purpose that is to
> > >>>>>>>> make money, so they will dump anything in return of more
profits.
> > >>>>>>>> To best
> > >>>>>>>> of my understanding humans tend to follow the ease over
hardship,
> > >>>>>>>> and follow hardship in sight of return. As for networks, CCIEs
are
> > >>>>>>>> there to handle control plane and with SDN that control plane is
> > >>>>>>>> being shifted ( that
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> is
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> unclear to me where at the moment) to something alike GUI or
> > >>>>>>>> scripts or maybe both.
> > >>>>>>>> I as a network engineer must understand the fundamental but will
> > >>>>>>>> it makes sense to understand them to this scary amount of depth
> > >>>>>>>> that CCIE goes into and also any one who i think is preparing
for
> > >>>>>>>> the lab exam will have solid foundation of the protocol but when
> > >>>>>>>> proving it in the lab does that
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> make
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> sense
> > >>>>>>>> and worth going for with SDN in perspective. CCIE is a number
> > >>>>>>>> that is
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> a
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> proof
> > >>>>>>>> of your understanding but will that proof be worthy and required
> > >>>>>>>> in the first place ?
> > >>>>>>>> i hope i made sense of my confusion :)
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 7 Jul
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> 2013 08:16:15 +0200
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ?
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> From: m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com<mailto:m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com>
> > >>>>>>>>> To: khanzadap_at_hotmail.com<mailto:khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>
> > >>>>>>>>> CC:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I wounder The GUI is created by engineers and you
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> are engineer how can you
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> create the click to do the action and how can you
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> click on this and
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> understand the action happens behind the seen are you a
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> help desk or
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> network engineer ?! again don't think that Cisco program
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> managers are
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> stupid to make the CCIE on of the Cisco programs that became a
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> reference
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> for understanding the technology and one of the Business
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> certificates that
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> make a Cisco market big will be dead due to another
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> product specially the
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> product is summarizing the command line again the GUI
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> wont be as easy like
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> the the command line, that's my own opinion and what I
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> see inside this
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> business while working in this field.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Monsef
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 7:45 AM, sameer khan
> > >>>>>>>>> <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com<mailto:khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Hello guys,
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> I am in pursuit of my CCIE R&S but now and
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> then i am hearing about sdn or
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> openflow that crushes my motivation and
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> stops me for moving forward, as
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> what i
> > >>>>>>>>>> seem to perceive is that some
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> point in future, i am not saying tomorrow or
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> any
> > >>>>>>>>>> time soon, the
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> commands and protocols that i am trying so hard to learn,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> understand and
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> memorize will be transformed into mouse clicks and with
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> fancy
> > >>>>>>>>>> GUI that
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> can make all the task easier but at the same time will make
CCIE
> > a
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> thing
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> of the past.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I don't know if my assumption are any right but i am really
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> really
> > >>>>>>>> confused
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> should i continue with CCIE R&S or take up programming and
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> VMware stuff (
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> though i already consider myself a decent programmer) ?
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I would be grateful if any one can be please help me out clear
> > the
> > >>>>>>>> this confusion.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Thanks
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> http://www.ccie.net/
> > >>>>>>>> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > >>>>>>>> ______
> > >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > CCIELab.html>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> http://www.ccie.net/
> > >>>>>>>> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > >>>>>>>> ______
> > >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > CCIELab.html>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at
> > >>>>>>>> http://www.ccie.net/
> > >>>>>>>> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > >>>>>>>> ______
> > >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > CCIELab.html>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > >>>>>>>> ______
> > >>>>>>>> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > CCIELab.html>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>> Marc Abel
> > >>>>>>> CCIE #35470
> > >>>>>>> (Routing and Switching)
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > >>>>>>> _______
> > >>>>>>> ____ Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>>>>>>
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > CCIELab.html>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Marc Abel
> > >>>>> CCIE #35470
> > >>>>> (Routing and Switching)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > >>>> ___________
> > >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>>>
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > CCIELab.html>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>>
> > >>> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > >>> ___________
> > >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>>
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > CCIELab.html>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>
> > >> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > >> ___________
> > >> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >>
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/
> > CCIELab.html>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >
> > > ______________________________**______________________________**
> > > ___________
> > > Subscription information may be found at: http://www.groupstudy.com/**
> > > list/CCIELab.html <http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Virtualization.net*
> > *Post Jobs, News, Forums, Tutorials*
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> >
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Narbik Kocharians
> > CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > www.MicronicsTraining.com<http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > A Cisco Learning Partner
> >
> >
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> >
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>
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Received on Tue Jul 09 2013 - 11:38:35 ART