RE: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?

The same 99% of SDN engineers will know little to nothing - like R/S engineers do now...

Recall (and I posted it here a few times) we asked 50 (FIFTY) CCIE or senior level engineers for a job interview we conducted for a client to "describe dhcp" and how it works.

NONE knew DORA... HOLY COW

Never expected that... the offering salary was around $200k.

Sad. Very sad.

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Jay McMickle
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 12:25 PM
To: marc abel
Cc: sameer khan; Mohamed A. Monsef Abbas; groupstudy
Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?

LOL. Same here!

Regards,
Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE #35355 (R/S,Sec)
Sent from my iPhone 5

On Jul 7, 2013, at 11:20 AM, marc abel <marcabel_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> Ha!
>
> We will see. Finishing my VCP at the moment. Looking to start either
> the
security, data center, or CCDE next year. Still on the fence as to which way to go.
>
> -Marc
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Jay McMickle <jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com>
wrote:
>> Agreed.
>>
>> PS- that brings us to the point- where is your 2nd IE, Marc? ;)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE #35355 (R/S,Sec) Sent from my iPhone 5
>>
>> On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:30 AM, marc abel <marcabel_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > If you are afraid of change of technology go into accounting. That
hasn't
>> > changed much in the last 30 years. I started as Novell Netware
certified.
>> > Want to guess when the last time I touched IPX/SPX protocol? You
>> > see
the
>> > change, you adapt. Often change in technology brings opportunity
>> > because not everyone knows the new stuff yet.
>> >
>> > The CCIE was never an end point anyway. Once you earn the CCIE
>> > route and switch then everyone expects you to be an expert on
>> > wireless, or voice,
or
>> > some other technology as well. Keep learning or wither and die in
>> > this business.
>> >
>> > -Marc
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Jay McMickle
>> > <jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com>
wrote:
>> >
>> >> Being a CCIE and configuring something directly on the device is
>> >> only a small part of the game.
>> >>
>> >> Think of SDN a wireless controller and AP type relationship. You
>> >> don't get upset that you don't have to configure
every
>> >> AP
>> >> (autonomously) do you? You enjoy the centralized configuration.
>> >> Think
of
>> >> this as being a method of making your job easier/centralized, not
taking
>> >> aware
>> >> of your elite certification. Today's form of SDN is still
>> >> premature,
but I
>> >> tell you this- all big player manufacturers are moving this way.
>> >> So,
you
>> >> can
>> >> switch brands, but you'll run into the same issue with each one.
>> >>
>> >> If SDN
>> >> moves you away from seeking the CCIE, then maybe your goals are
misaligned.
>> >> Technology is moving forward, with or without us. Fight it, and
>> >> stand alone.
>> >> Embrace it, and become the best at it.
>> >>
>> >> Continue your studies and stay up
>> >> with technology. That's my advice.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Jay McMickle- 2x CCIE
>> >> #35355 (R&S,Sec)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: sameer khan
>> >> <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>
>> >> To: Mohamed A. Monsef Abbas <m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com>
>> >> Cc: groupstudy <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 1:51 AM
>> >> Subject: RE: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Monsef thanks
>> >> for replying, i really understand that Cisco program manager must
>> >> have thought of something but let me take a flashback and try to
>> >> explain where i am coming from, not too far back Microsoft dumped
>> >> dos, with windows 95. With windows 95 the GUI eliminated the
>> >> need of commands that were used for operation as simple as copying
>> >> a file. The companies are there for one sole purpose that is to
>> >> make money, so they will dump anything in return of more profits.
>> >> To best
>> >> of my understanding humans tend to follow the ease over hardship,
>> >> and follow hardship in sight of return. As for networks, CCIEs are
>> >> there to handle control plane and with SDN that control plane is
>> >> being shifted ( that
is
>> >> unclear to me where at the moment) to something alike GUI or
>> >> scripts or maybe both.
>> >> I as a network engineer must understand the fundamental but will
>> >> it makes sense to understand them to this scary amount of depth
>> >> that CCIE goes into and also any one who i think is preparing for
>> >> the lab exam will have solid foundation of the protocol but when
>> >> proving it in the lab does that
make
>> >> sense
>> >> and worth going for with SDN in perspective. CCIE is a number
>> >> that is
a
>> >> proof
>> >> of your understanding but will that proof be worthy and required
>> >> in the first place ?
>> >> i hope i made sense of my confusion :)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Date: Sun, 7 Jul
>> >> 2013 08:16:15 +0200
>> >>> Subject: Re: OT - After SDN, does CCIE still make senese
>> >> ?
>> >>> From: m.abdelmonsef_at_gmail.com
>> >>> To: khanzadap_at_hotmail.com
>> >>> CC:
>> >> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>> >>>
>> >>> I wounder The GUI is created by engineers and you
>> >> are engineer how can you
>> >>> create the click to do the action and how can you
>> >> click on this and
>> >>> understand the action happens behind the seen are you a
>> >> help desk or
>> >>> network engineer ?! again don't think that Cisco program
>> >> managers are
>> >>> stupid to make the CCIE on of the Cisco programs that became a
>> >> reference
>> >>> for understanding the technology and one of the Business
>> >> certificates that
>> >>> make a Cisco market big will be dead due to another
>> >> product specially the
>> >>> product is summarizing the command line again the GUI
>> >> wont be as easy like
>> >>> the the command line, that's my own opinion and what I
>> >> see inside this
>> >>> business while working in this field.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>>
>> >>> Monsef
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 7:45 AM, sameer khan
>> >>> <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hello guys,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I am in pursuit of my CCIE R&S but now and
>> >> then i am hearing about sdn or
>> >>>> openflow that crushes my motivation and
>> >> stops me for moving forward, as
>> >>>> what i
>> >>>> seem to perceive is that some
>> >> point in future, i am not saying tomorrow or
>> >>>> any
>> >>>> time soon, the
>> >> commands and protocols that i am trying so hard to learn,
>> >>>> understand and
>> >> memorize will be transformed into mouse clicks and with
>> >>>> fancy
>> >>>> GUI that
>> >> can make all the task easier but at the same time will make CCIE a
>> >>>> thing
>> >> of the past.
>> >>>> I don't know if my assumption are any right but i am really
>> >> really
>> >> confused
>> >>>> should i continue with CCIE R&S or take up programming and
>> >> VMware stuff (
>> >>>> though i already consider myself a decent programmer) ?
>> >> I would be grateful if any one can be please help me out clear the
>> >> this confusion.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Blogs and organic groups at
>> >> http://www.ccie.net/
>> >> __________________________________________________________________
>> >> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Blogs and organic groups at
>> >> http://www.ccie.net/
>> >> __________________________________________________________________
>> >> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Blogs and organic groups at
>> >> http://www.ccie.net/
>> >> __________________________________________________________________
>> >> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >>
>> >> __________________________________________________________________
>> >> _____ Subscription information may be found at:
>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Marc Abel
>> > CCIE #35470
>> > (Routing and Switching)
>> >
>> >
>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >
>> > ___________________________________________________________________
>> > ____ Subscription information may be found at:
>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
> --
> Marc Abel
> CCIE #35470
> (Routing and Switching)

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Sun Jul 07 2013 - 18:46:47 ART