Re: CCIE Service Providerv3 - General Question

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On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 12:11 AM, Josh <josh_at_atterburyhouse.com> wrote:
> Guys, take this offline please.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 30/10/2012, at 5:06 PM, Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com> wrote:
>
>> Narbik,
>> The company that sponsors you for your Cisco Learning partnership
>> (Skyline-ATS) contacted us about a partnership about a year ago. After
>> telling them how well we're doing and fast INE is growing (making Inc 5000
>> for the third year in a row next year) they said that we would be "out of
>> our minds" to become Cisco authorized. We of course wouldn't do it
>> anyways because I could never teach the 360 CCIE classes knowing that I
>> only have really 2.5 to 3 days of real instruction between the labs they
>> have do during the class. I mean they fly in for a 5 day CCIE class and
>> the first day they give you an assessment? Why waste a whole day on an
>> assessment? It's only a 5 day class. Why not have them take the
>> assessment before they come to the class? Or how about the "authorized"
>> Cisco 360 videos where you can buy a single 90 minute video with a lab for
>> $395. People need to be able to pay with Cisco Learning Credits (CLCs)
>> because no one in their right mind would fork out $395 cash for 90 minutes
>> of video on one topic. Where do they come up with this pricing? Wall
>> Street? Maybe since Cisco says less than 1% of people are Cisco CCIE
>> certified the pricing is for the 1% ;-)
>>
>> Additionally not being Cisco authorized means I can offer scholarships
>> like we did this year (http://ine.co/2tv4w). I can offer affordable
>> training to people in "developing" countries. I can offer products DRM
>> free (i.e. No LockLizard). The products are the customer's as they paid
>> for it so they can use it as they see fit. Now when I get to the point
>> I'm only concerned with the money and don't care helping people, then I'll
>> become Cisco authorized and sell those $395 90 minute single Cisco 360
>> videos over the $299 80+ hour video series we currently offer. Or by
>> going authorized I'll be able to offer everything locked down with
>> LockLizard so everyone is penalized because a few people pirate the
>> material.
>>
>> I know that you promised everyone that you would not respond to this
>> thread anymore but feel free since you already responded a few times since
>> then. I'm sure you'll want to chime in as to why you use LockLizard over
>> doing what INE does by being 100% DRM free.
>>
>> Lastly I know that I'm a little "light hearted" in some of my wording but
>> the overall discussion of why INE never went Cisco authorized is a
>> question that I get from time to time but not often from anyone who has
>> "experienced" Cisco authorized training. Usually then the question
>> answers itself ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
>> bdennis_at_ine.com
>>
>> INE, Inc.
>> http://www.INE.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/29/12 5:55 PM, "Narbik Kocharians" <narbikk_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Kenneth,
>>>
>>> Knowing the basics is VERY important, besides some of the obvious
>>> subjects,
>>> you have lots of other ones that Cisco has added to the cert, maybe
>>> students don't need to take the actual CCNA-SP but a combo CCNA-CCNP SP
>>> boot camp will work better as a foundation class to the CCIE-SP.
>>> There are many benefits doing these classes through a Cisco Learning
>>> Partner (CLP), and one of them is the fact that you can use CLCs.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Kenneth Ratliff <dayne_at_cluebat.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/26/12 7:29 PM, "Brian McGahan" <bmcgahan_at_ine.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Right, there are obviously differences between the two OSes, both in
>>>>> hardware and software, but for any true CCIE this should not be an
>>>> issue.
>>>>> The point of the CCIE is to obtain the level of expert in network
>>>>> engineering. As an expert you should have a deep theoretical knowledge
>>>>> of why and how different networking technologies work. OSPF is OSPF,
>>>> BGP
>>>>> is BGP, whether it's on IOS, IOS XR, NX-OS, JunOS, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, that's the kind of viewpoint that causes outages. When you start
>>>> thinking like this, you tend to make some very, very bad assumptions. Of
>>>> course, you might live you in a world where vendors never change options
>>>> or defaults between platforms or even OS revisions on the same platform,
>>>> never mind the consideration of interoperability.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What I'm saying is that if you're a CCIE in R&S - an *expert* in
>>>> Routing
>>>>> & Switching technologies - and you need to start back at CCNA level for
>>>>> the Service Provider track, then you have failed. You've failed
>>>> yourself
>>>>> as you've missed the entire point of CCIE to begin with.
>>>>
>>>> There's something about this I find to be fairly offensive, and quite a
>>>> bit elitist. Do you honestly believe that achieving a CCIE means you
>>>> never
>>>> have to go back to basics? You never have to review? That you don't have
>>>> that much to learn?
>>>>
>>>> When you're dealing with an unfamiliar platform and a new OS, I think
>>>> it's
>>>> prudent to probably start with the basics. I'd expect a CCIE to be able
>>>> to
>>>> breeze through it, since it should simply be a matter of reconciling the
>>>> differences with what you already know, but to say that you've failed
>>>> yourself by making an attempt to cover all the bases? I think that's a
>>>> bit
>>>> too cavalier.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Narbik Kocharians
>>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>> A Cisco Learning Partner
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
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-- 
Humphrey Cheung, CISSP #365719, CCNP, CCDP, CCIP
@humphreycheung
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